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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General refers to the need for periodic benchmarking of PPP projects. Mr. Watts stated in his recent report that core services had saved €160,000 in renegotiating PPP agreements. He also stated he had agreed to ask all relevant Departments to do the same. Has he done this yet? Has he issued a circular in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Watt to send it to the Committee of Public Accounts because it is important to see how the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is following up on matters. Will he also come back to us on the €4 billion outstanding on PPP projects? I see the commitments for some school projects assume an inflation rate of 4%, while others assume an inflation rate of 2.5%. If the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: I thank the Comptroller and Auditor General for that information. Mr. Watt stated that the Freedom of Information Bill 2013 will ensure Ireland's freedom of information regime is restored to the top tier of legal frameworks internationally for facilitating access to official information. Will Mr. Watt tell me why the Department has put in the Bill, which is on Second Stage in the Chamber as...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: I wish to bring up one particular topic but specifically on this issue. I must state straight up that Mr. Watt is being overly sensitive and I will tell him the reason his actions prove this. Mr. Watt spoke of the €50 billion that is expended by the State and the good work that is done. That will be debated in the Chamber during the budget and Estimates debates. In the case of each...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: All are under 50.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: It is 97% in some European countries.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: Could Mr. Watt send them on to me?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: It would be helpful if the Department or Government could set a target of 95%, which would be closer to the EU figure. I am calculating the figure. Mr. Watt is saying 90% of the figure of €13 billion goes to Irish businesses. If another 5% was added to that, it would be another €700 million out of that figure of €13 billion going into the Irish economy just for making...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: Yes. We know about patents but the big issue is that we are still paying too much.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: Before I touch on PPPs, I have another question for Mr. Watt. I am not straying into public sector pay. We have talked about savings and procurement. What other savings can the Department achieve in the public service that are non-pay and non-procurement through efficiencies? In respect of Croke Park and interim reports, they were always able to demonstrate large non-pay savings of which...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: I will come back later.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: Yes, we can disagree.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: We did not get the Estimates until six months into the year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: They were always there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: That is all thanks to an EU treaty.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: We all accept that we need to meet our troika targets and that deficit targets were achieved. I was referring to the overspend of €1 billion in the health and social protection Votes. Mr. Watt seems to think this is not an issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: Will Supplementary Estimates be required this year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: It will be good to get back to a position where Departments do not require Supplementary Estimates. The figure for the procurement of goods and services in the year in question was €8.6 billion which with capital expenditure of €4.5 billion gives a total of €13.1 billion. How much of that spend was on Irish goods and services? I know there are EU regulations for...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: I understand everything Mr. Watt is saying but the boss of any business would, when the auditor comes in and lists what he regards as unsatisfactory and puts a figure on most of the chapters, tot up what was lost through income not collected or how much was spent on a project that was cancelled. I am a bit surprised that the Department has not done that. Leaving aside the Committee of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 42 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Chapter 6 - Financial Commitments under Public Private Partnerships
Chapter 12 - Vote Accounting
Chapter 13 - Procurement without a Competitive Process
(3 Oct 2013)

Seán Fleming: And the Garda.

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