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Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Amendment No. 44 is one I would have expected the Government or the pro-choice supporters of the Bill, or both, to propose. It tries to ensure full access to all possible information when a woman is considering having an abortion and that she will give full and voluntary consent to the procedure. Relevant knowledge is essential to give full consent. The amendment makes it clear that...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I will speak to it.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I am working very hard to be to the point.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: That is understood. It is interesting that the Minister drifted into the area of counselling, as it is different from the area of providing relevant information. This is not an amendment about counselling.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister for Health knows exactly what this amendment is about. It is about informed consent.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The comments were helpful to the extent that the Minister drew attention to the matter of counselling and had a side-swipe at people who would describe themselves as counsellors but who are not.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister mentioned the Irish Family Planning Association, IFPA, in recent times and said he was in touch with the organisation. It gave dangerous information to women at a certain point in the not-so-distant past, as reported in a national newspaper.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Every time I have raised this matter in the Seanad or in national media, Senator Bacik has risen-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: It is relevant. The Minister referred to counselling being non-directive but when people were found to have told women, for example, that they should lie about their abortion and say they had a miscarriage, the advice was criticised by the then master of the Rotunda Hospital as being potentially life-endangering. We must be very careful about who we give credit to for being non-directive....

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Very successfully. You know all about how, as part of the rights we all now enjoy as consumers or people who enter into a contract, we are entitled to a certain cooling-off period. Let us say a woman is not aware of the fact that with regard to certain abortion-inducing drugs, should she change her mind that process is reversible. Would the Minister think it would be okay that a woman...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I move amendment No. 45:In page 15, between lines 5 and 6, to insert the following: “Parental notification 22. (1) A termination of pregnancy in respect of a pregnant minor may only be carried out in accordance with section 9 where a copy of the certification referred to in that section has been served on a parent of the minor at least 24 hours before the termination of pregnancy is...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I move amendment No. 46:In page 15, between lines 5 and 6, to insert the following: “Provision of foetal ultrasound imaging and auscultation of foetal heart tone 22. (1) At least 24 hours before the carrying out of a termination of pregnancy in accordance with section 9, section 11 or section 12 the relevant medical practitioner or a qualified person assisting the relevant medical...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: This amendment proposes to insert a new section entitled, Provision of foetal ultrasound imaging and auscultation of foetal heart tone. It provides that at least 24 hours before the carrying out of a termination of a pregnancy in accordance with section 9, 11 or 12, the relevant medical practitioner or qualified person assisting the relevant medical practitioner shall perform ultrasound...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Beidh mé cúramach, a Chathaoirligh, ach is í an riail atá againn anseo ná nár chóir duine a cháineadh. I gcás rud atá tarlaithe, atá cruthaithe agus atá fíor a bhaineann le heagraíocht ach go háirithe, táimid i dteideal é a lua agus b'fhéidir go mbeadh sé tábhachtach go luafaí é....

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I know Senator Norris is the libel king around here.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The malpractice of the counselling agencies in question was tape recorded and was the subject of an article in the Irish Independent. It was also investigated by the Garda.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Right away. As I have made clear, the obligation is on the doctor to offer the ultrasound. As I said, people who support rational action based on informed consent should be supportive of this amendment. Paternalism occurs in cases where one hears about a screen being turned away so that the woman could not observe or being told that she should not observe. This amendment does not provide...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Cathaoirleach should at least suspend until we shame the person and find out who it is.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I wish to respond to what the Minister and others have said. The Minister persists in using a term that can only be designed to be emotive, namely, of subjecting the woman to an ultrasound.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister is subjecting the unborn child to death. That is the difference. Every abortion situation involves a conflict of rights. This legislation dispossesses unborn children of the most basic human right, just as we celebrate and mark the 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I refer also to conventions and documents that flowed from that, such as the UN...