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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Was your interaction lawyer to lawyer then rather than you to somebody or, we'll say, Arthur Cox in general to somebody operating directly on behalf of the IMF?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: And they would've been the people who we all know and are familiar with in terms of names who were dealing with the IMF matters here in this-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Can I turn now, actually, perhaps to Mr. McCague? What was your views - in relation to the night of the guarantee itself - on the responsibility that the State had legally for the banking system or the position of individual banks within that system?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Well, during ... while the decision was being discussed even, I suppose-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: -----yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. In reference to a comment that you made in answer to Senator MacSharry earlier, you said that you - and I think I'm quoting you correctly - you don't remember anyone making an assertion that on ... banks were insolvent on the night of the guarantee in the meetings that you attended. Was there an extensive discussion around the matter of insolvency or the potential for insolvency or...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Can I ... I just want to rewind, there's one point that I forgot to ask Mr. Ó Ríordáin earlier. In relation to the full extent of the seven years that were ... that you're referencing in your opening statement - and you spoke about the 120 lawyers who were employed over that seven-year period, or were working on these matters within the firm - can you inform the inquiry how...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I want to turn to paragraph 5.5, which is quite a long paragraph, if I remember, because its got a number of subsections. If I can find it myself. Yes, subsection (e) of your statement, you say that the legal consequences of a failure of a bank could have included the capacity of the ECB to seize the bank's collateral. Can you, maybe, briefly outline what that would have entailed?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: So, in theory at least, the ECB could have become a ... almost a direct lender to people who held loans.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Have you heard of any examples of where that actually happened? Maybe in other jurisdictions or other examples of that.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. At paragraph 6.3 of your statement you say "Anglo posed the greatest risk to the guarantee and the stability of the banking sector". Again, can you maybe elaborate on that particular statement?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Was it your advice to the Department that Anglo was of such systemic importance that the consequences of its failure would have impacted on the industry in the manner that you've outlined?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. In evidence to the inquiry, Professor Honohan, Governor of the Central Bank, spoke about the merger of EBS and AIB and the merger of Anglo and INBS and he said it "seemed a largely pointless cosmetic exercise". That's from page 7 of his statement that he gave to the inquiry. He also said that the exercise was "pressed on the Irish authorities by the Troika". You would have been...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: So would I be correct ... I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but you have a difference of opinion as to what Professor Honohan said? His quote again was that it "seemed a largely pointless [and] cosmetic exercise".

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Again, just to rewind to maybe one of my earlier points in relation to burden sharing, paragraph 12.3, you refer to ... of your statement, you refer to the burden-sharing of deposit holders. Again, within the narrow constraints in which we're operating, were you ever asked to provide advices in that particular window, if you like, as to the possibility of burden-sharing with deposit holders?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. All right. Thank you very much.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Briefly Mr. McCague, in relation to paragraph 6 of your opening statement, the meeting on the Sunday 28th, in the NTMA building with Department officials where further discussions on loan books, in particular Anglo, took place. Did you form a view, I suppose on the night of the meeting in question, we've had evidence that the NTMA weren't directly present in the room, as to why they weren't...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Do you think that they should have been?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Okay. Mr. Ó Ríordáin, in relation to my earlier question, did you say ... I didn't pick you up properly, you might clarify that Cleary Gottlieb were employed by the IMF in relation to the issue of burden-sharing?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (16 Jul 2015)

John Paul Phelan: So did you have direct contact with Mr. Buchheit?

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