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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Minister is giving us the figure now but it is not in the legislation. We may consider putting it into primary legislation.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: Yes, so that it does not have to come back to the Oireachtas each time that it is increased or decreased by €5. We keep talking about €500 but I do not see it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: Amendment No. 34 was ruled out of order by the Chairman and I am not arguing with that decision. Opposition Members cannot propose amendments that amount to a charge on the Exchequer. The amendment states "An FOI body shall establish a facility by which payment or refund of any fees due under this Act may be made electronically". I am pleased to see that the Minister has inserted, at the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: Did the original section in the legislation have the €500?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Minister's amendment included the €500.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: It is a cap.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: I am very pleased, as that is the figure I recommended in my Private Members' Bill last year, as the Minister acknowledged. On Second Stage of that Bill I detailed the replies of a parliamentary question to every Department on the maximum and average fee charged for search and retrieval. Some of the averages were approximately €7. One or two exceptional cases were in thousands of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps it will be included in the code. I am pleased the amendment is being redrafted. The Minister is essentially indicating that if the search and retrieval fees to get information become expensive and venture into thousands of euro, there may be a way of dealing with the issue by refining the request.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: That is probably why he got into the other issue of separate requests.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: One follows the other. I know the Minister is withdrawing the amendment but fees and charges are detailed at section 27(5). I tabled an amendment and thought it would be grouped for discussion purposes. Subsection (5) of the amendment indicates: Where the record or records concerned contains or contain only personal information relating to the requester concerned— (a) no fee under...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: I propose that we could revisit that. There is an amendment-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Minister has examined the matter and felt the €500 fee was more reasonable than €200, €300 or €1,000. It is a balanced figure. Deputies on the committee may have disagreed in saying that €500 was too high. The Minister has accepted the figure and is establishing a ceiling. It is moot as to whether it should be €500 or a lower figure at this...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: I understand how they are linked as one may have to aggregate a request in order to get search and retrieval fees below the €500 cap. That is another issue. Overall, I welcome that the Minister is taking up my suggestion and returning with refined wording.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The committee might discuss the fees issue on its own.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The essence of the section is that someone can refuse a request that he or she might normally grant because it is connected to another record that is exempt. He or she can redact or edit it, but he or she may believe that might give misleading information. It is another way to not properly release information. The information being sought would normally be granted, but it relates to a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The section provides that if the decision is not made within the legal timeframes referred to by the Minister, it is deemed to be a refusal. Can the applicant make an appeal straightaway?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: Are many decisions deemed to be refusals because a deadline has been missed? I am sure this issue must have been discussed with bodies. Does this happen often?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The applicant can then take it further.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: The Minister used the word "response", which is the bit that gets me.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Seán Fleming: I do not know whether every freedom of information officer thinks a response means the answer, if the Minister understands what I mean.

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