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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I ask the witness to listen. Did the Department of Education and Skills give feedback to the Minister or to anyone on the proposal in the interim report that the existing redress or a new redress scheme be made available to those children who were in mother and baby homes unaccompanied? Did the Department have a view on that and give feedback to say that a redress was not appropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. I am still specifically asking because-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Theoretically, it is still open and has not completed its business on outstanding issues.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I am still asking the witness a specific question. Did the Department give feedback on the appropriateness or inappropriateness of setting up another redress board or extending this one in relation to the specific recommendation from the interim report on mother and baby homes?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: And that a new redress scheme was not appropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Why am I asking that? First of all, it is very important. Second, the predictions of the Department of Education and Skills were totally wrong on the time the commission would take and the cost of it. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: The Comptroller and Auditor General has pointed out how severe they were. Was €250 million the estimated cost of the redress board?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Was the witness there at the time?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: The estimate was made for €250 million and it ended up at €1.2 billion. Who was responsible for that forecast that was totally inaccurate, unreasonable and not based on reality? Who was responsible for that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Was that not totally incompetent?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: How would that take the Department by surprise?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: It was totally incompetent and I rarely use words like that at this committee. To forecast the cost at €250 million and have the outturn at €1.2 billion shows me that the Department did not conduct a proper analysis. I refer back to the deferential attitude to the religious. It seems that persisted when officials were negotiating and making the indemnity agreement, to which I...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: The indemnity agreement signed in 2002 by the then Minister, Mr. Woods, was for €128 million. How much is outstanding? Is it correct that this is a legally binding agreement as opposed to the promise made a few years later?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: How much of the €128 million is outstanding?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: What figure is outstanding?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That updates the Comptroller and Auditor General's statement; it is higher.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: So €15 million is all that is outstanding

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Do not confuse me with properties. There was €128 million. The value outstanding is €15 million and everything else has been transferred over. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Why has it taken that long?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 96 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Child Abuse Inquiry and Redress (13 Apr 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Can Mr. Ó Foghlú give us a list of the properties?

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