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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: One of the problems we are all coming across is the length of time people are on the waiting list. By the time they require treatment, in fact, the degree of treatment they require has greatly increased. Can we look at the system with a view to taking people off the waiting list at an earlier stage and getting them referred out? There seems to be a policy that we will not even dare talk...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: I got a letter back from a hospital telling me that a patient had only been on the list since 2021, more or less clearly indicating to me that it was not prepared to put the patient on the list under the NTPF.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: Is that once they are on the list for three months?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: Okay. Can the list of certain procedures be expanded so that we do not have patients, who are waiting for other procedures, waiting for two to three years and still cannot get on the NTPF list?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: Could that list be expanded?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: I would like to follow up on what Deputy Dillon raised earlier on about the cost of nursing home care. He raised the one issue in relation to Cork, where 73 beds have now been withdrawn from the fair deal scheme. We now have a problem. We have 73 people who do not have beds from now on if they cannot pay for it themselves. I would like to raise the issue with regard to Laois. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: -----in a public facility, whereas a private facility will look after 45 patients for the same cost.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: Can I ask Mr. Gloster for a report on that? There was a 10.3% increase in the cost of public nursing homes between January 2022 and January 2023. What I am concerned about is that for the private sector, which is only getting €1,000 per bed per week, the increase was only 3%. Yet, here we have €2,585 per bed per week in Laois.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: In fairness now, over €2,500 per bed, per week. It says something, and that is the average cost in Laois. One of the reasons for that average cost is that if one has a facility which was costing €4,500 per bed, per week, then when one averages it out over the three units, one is having problems. The second thing that I want to ask-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: I know that, but what I am saying to Mr. Gloster that is if one is costing 150% more in a public system, then one is depriving other people of care, because one could look after a lot more people with the lower cost that is provided in the private sector. How can this be allowed to continue? Even if you vary it, the average cost of a nursing home in Dublin in the HSE is €1,917 per...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: Then do we need to revisit on the basis of getting for value-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: There may be factors, Chair, but this is about the cost to the taxpayer.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: This is the Committee of Public Accounts. We need to have accountability. The second issue which I want to raise, and I have raised this before, is about the delay in getting people out of public hospitals, where nursing homes are prepared to take patients, but they feel that the fair deal scheme will not be adequate because a person needs a higher degree of care than the normal nursing...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: I am aware of that. That is not the issue. The issue is where it is clearly identified that the patient needs a higher degree of care than a normal nursing home. There are contracted beds that the HSE has in nursing homes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: In one case, for instance, where there were ten contracted beds, that facility was prepared to take an extra two patients under the contracted beds system, and the HSE would not agree. It wanted to send them off to outside of County Cork, which does not make sense to me.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: If, however, they went into a public nursing home, it would be costing a lot more anyway. If one is getting €1,000 under the fair deal scheme, and the nursing home says that it would require an extra €350 or €400 per week to look after this patient because they need more staff assigned to them, and a higher degree of care, why can we not? We would get an awful lot of...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Financial Statements 2021: HSE
Special Report No. 114 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Emergency Procurement of Ventilators by the HSE
Vote 38 - Health
(11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: A bed there costs €600 more than a bed in Dublin.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: Another issue is the lack of co-ordination between the local authorities, Irish Water and the Department. It is crazy. A local authority wants to do one thing but cannot because Irish Water is not in on the overall plan. That is causing a problem.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: The problem was that there was no money being put in by local authorities to deal with the water services. We are 40 years behind in terms of upgrading. I got a note to my office in Blackpool in Cork the other day. The pipes were being flushed out because some of the steel pipes are more than 100 years old and all the water coming out of them was brown. No upgrade has been undertaken for...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2023)

Colm Burke: There is also a problem that in the period around 2008, many people who were buying houses were saying they would not have estates taken in charge but would set up management companies to manage the estate and the effluent treatment. Many of those management companies were not set up.

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