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Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I move amendment No. 25:In page 10, line 3, to delete “matter” and substitute “matters”.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I oppose these sections generally. Amendment No. 26 would abolish the three-day waiting period on the ground of "any reason", contrary to the promises repeatedly given to the people before the referendum. Abortion supporters consistently talk about respecting the mandate given by the referendum result, but they want to scrap this core commitment given in the heads of the Bill. What was...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I correct the Minister on the point on having to do so. First, he was not given an instruction to introduce abortion services. He is looping back to that language. It has been pointed out to him, not just by me, that what the Oireachtas was given was the freedom to legislate in this area. Certainly, people knew some opening up of the law on abortion would result from that but in no sense...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: It is true what the Minister said, that I and others warned about what the Government would do if it got the freedom-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I and others warned about what the Government would do if it got the freedom-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The point I am making, which the Minister does not seem happy to allow me to make-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: -----is that there is a difference between being given an instruction to do something that puts one in the wrong if one does not do it and being given the freedom to do something.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Yes.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: There was a lot of talk for long enough about why people thought it was inappropriate to have laws prohibiting abortion in the Constitution. Now it seems that every time the Minister refers to having been given some kind of instruction by the people, which he was not given, he wants to constitutionalise. We are being invited to believe that if the Government in any way rowed back from its...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: What the people decided was that the Legislature, Oireachtas Éireann-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I was responding to an inaccuracy in what the Minister said. It is inaccurate. I did not say he was incompetent and dishonest; I offered alternatives. I stand by my position that it is either incompetent in terms of the position the Minister holds or dishonest to pretend in any way that the people of Ireland on 25 May instructed the Government to introduce this abortion legislation in full...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I will finish with a question to the Minister. It relates directly to what he said about the three-day waiting period. He said he had changed it from 72 hours to three days. What is the significance of that?

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I wish to ask a brief question. I thank the Minister for his response about the Interpretation Act but I do not understand the implications of it. The Bill states that "the termination of pregnancy shall not be carried out by a medical practitioner unless a period of not less than 3 days has elapsed" from the date of certification or the date of the previous certification. What I am trying...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: It is clear to the Minister and colleagues from all of the amendments I have tabled with Senators Ó Domhnaill and Coghlan that we accept the reality that we cannot turn around this dreadful legislation. What we have sought to do in everything is to bring clarity and a modicum of humanity to what we regard as very inhumane. The forgetfulness of the dignity of the life of the unborn...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I respect the Cathaoirleach's position but I have to say that if a baby survives in this situation, it may be very much in need of what is called perinatal hospice care, although normally it does occur in the context of a situation where a tragic diagnosis of abnormality or disability is received and parents and baby need to be consoled and supported but it does arise in this case here. I...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister's answer is very problematic. For the Minister for Health, who is introducing abortion on wide-ranging grounds, to say that he is unfamiliar with research about where situations have arisen in other countries-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister has had two years to familiarise himself with the stories and the documented evidence. He is the one who is introducing abortion, not me.

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I would have thought that the Minister championing the introduction of abortion-----

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: -----would be interested enough to pursue the question of whether it ever occurs that babies survive abortion procedures and what happens to them in various jurisdictions. The Minister has a phalanx of advisers, a chief medical officer and the negligence of the situation, to put it kindly, that he would not be familiar with what happens to the point that he could in any way discuss whether...

Seanad: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (11 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister is changing this. That was best medical practice, under Irish law and under Medical Council guidelines.

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