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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Regarding Members leaving a party and the allowance remaining with the party, I understand what the Minister said regarding the snapshot, the fact that the people spoke and that is how it should be reflected in the Parliament. However, this section we are dealing with in this legislation does not fully back up what the Minister has just said. At the bottom of page 5 of the legislation,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: The Members were elected by a party. That is the party the people voted for. We will clarify that subsection and I am sure Deputies here will want amendments to it on Report Stage. What is most interesting is that it goes on to state that the allowance for those Members can be transferred to a different party from which they were not elected, and which they probably bitterly opposed during...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Even though the wording needs to be improved, I am pressing the principle. I want to make the point.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 13: In page 4, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following:"(2) Where a member of a party elected to Dáil Éireann or Seanad Éireann ceases to be a member of that party, the percentage amount of the allowance paid in respect of him or her to his or her former party shall be paid to such former party member and such amount shall be deducted from that...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: It is great that there are so many here. My amendment, which is written in plain English, states that where a member of a party elected to Dáil Éireann or Seanad Éireann ceases to be a member of that party, the percentage amount of the allowance paid in respect of the member to his or her former party shall be paid to such former party member and such amount shall be deducted...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Exactly.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: The returning officers give the names of those elected and the Members come in here and sign the roll in Leinster House after the election. The Member signs it. There is a pure natural justice issue here. I will be straight about it. This issue will probably affect more the parties in government than the parties in opposition. Historically, most Members who leave parties tend to leave...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Others may want to speak.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: The fund to which the payment is lodged. It goes into a bank account. I should have said the bank account.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: The organisation.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: I have listened to what the Minister said. The wording should have been "The qualifying party or the member to which the parliamentary activities allowance shall be obliged to produce an annual tax clearance certificate". I will table an amendment with that wording on Report Stage because the payment is made to qualifying parties. "Qualifying party" is the phrase used in the legislation...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: That is the word I have used. I am sure that a fund could get a tax clearance certificate but to be clear about it, I will bring forward an amendment on Report Stage that will include the wording "the qualifying party or member".

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Or to a Member if he or she is not a member of qualifying party. The payments will go qualifying parties. That is the phrase in the legislation.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Or to the members who are not members of the qualifying party.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: The essence of what I am saying is that the qualifying parties - that is the phrase in the legislation - should produce an annual tax clearance certificate. It would be good practice in any event regardless of publishing accounts. People publish accounts without being tax compliant and then the-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: Pardon?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: No. They have a tax number and that is all that matters for this.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: The parliamentary activities account pays payroll in respect of research and the press office. By definition, they have a revenue number.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: No. I am saying the parliamentary allowance is used to pay the salaries of staff.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Seán Fleming: By definition, they are required to comply with the payment of PAYE, PRSI and the universal social charge.

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