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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Ms McMahon and Mr. McCabe have been very clear. They have said that Deputy Commissioner Rice's viewpoint was right. They accept that the money belonged to An Garda Síochána. Is that not what they are saying? I want to be fair. I asked them this question this morning. I read out the deputy commissioner's words. He said the money belonged to An Garda Síochána. My...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. Ms McMahon has been very clear. I do not understand how An Garda Síochána can have an investigation with an open mind if that is its belief because it is clearly against what Mr. McGee, Mr. Nolan and the internal audit said. For my simple mind, money came through a Vote to pay for the gardaí who were training. That money went into the restaurant. Surplus...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand what Ms McMahon has told me, but I ask her to listen to my point of view. I am no expert but we are learning quickly from the Comptroller and Auditor General. Clearly, even back in 2008, the Garda was not complying with the regulations that existed at that time. We will come to Mr. McGee's report in 2008 which set out the difficulties then. I have difficulty understanding how...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That is Ms McMahon's understanding of what it was.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: We are going to go back to the Department of Justice and Equality, because all along the Garda has been consistent in stating the Department was fully aware of this, tolerated it and not just tolerated but fully encouraged it as a way of generating funds.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: The Department of Justice and Equality has to answer something here, because the message coming all the time from the Garda, through correspondence and testimony, is that the Department sanctioned all this one way or another. Perhaps "sanctioned" is too strong a word. Did the Department sanction it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: We will come to the Department of Justice and Equality. For us, the money is going in and generating a profit. That profit is allowed to purchase shares and Aviva stands out. It allows the Garda to make contributions to everyone from the GAA to the local church to the boat club in Dublin. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I am not even going down that road. I will let the internal audit complete its business. At this point I am just trying to clarify. I wish we were looking at the implementation of the recommendations and that we could deal with this and get it out of the way, but the more we try to do that, the more items of conflict come up. The two obvious ones are the divergent views of Mr. Barrett and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That was 27 January 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: What Ms McMahon is saying is she was carrying out her job at that time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: In relation to the company.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Is that Mr. Culhane?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: What is the point Ms McMahon is making?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I accept that and I see it, and I think Mr. Barrett accepts it. There comes a point where he loses trust in the process. That is the difficulty as we see it. That is just his viewpoint from what we see coming across. If we go back again, I am concerned that the message was this was historical. Mr. Dunne said in one of the two notes he wrote that he had no concerns about the past, that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Let me explain where I got this from. I got this from minutes, or a note, which have already been referred to, from 6 August, "Meeting Office of the Chief Administrative Officer" at 11.15 a.m.. On the second page, the CEO outlined that his only concern relating to the college was the obligation that at the end of a financial year, if a public body had a surplus, which Mr. Dunne has said...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: There was no report at this point. There was no interim audit report at this time. This was August 2015.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. Mr. Dunne was clearly saying in 2015 that there was no major issue with what went before.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I hear what Mr. Dunne is telling me. Is Mr. McCabe listed in the minutes as PMcC?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: It states "Superintendent Garda College, Patrick McCabe", noted as "PMcC", pointed out the 2008 finance report does not put into context the previous 40 years and the fact the college is 50 years old. It states he said the Department is fully aware of the arrangements relating to the college restaurant and referenced certain decisions. Mr. McCabe said context was not taken into account and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Am I being unfair when I say it was not in compliance, even in 2008?

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