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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I do not know if Dr. Rose was going to say what I am about to say. It is clear from this session how complex and varied are the issues we must consider. I certainly suggest it could be a good idea to devote some time to looking at research and what it states as a key aspect that should be considered discretely. That said, we must be conscious that research is not everything because it is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I apologise for that. Ought public policy instruments be used, or could they be used, to discourage the practice of surrogacy separately from the question of whether one regulates the practice the way proposed or otherwise? Dr. Madden mentioned the real reason people go abroad is that legal regimes abroad are more favourable. Is that really the case? Is not a big aspect of this the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: May I ask two supplementary questions arising from Professor Madden's response?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: It might be useful for us to tease out at a future meeting the reasons people are travelling and whether it is for legal reasons or the financial disadvantage issue that I proposed. Far from that being a statement, it was a question. My first question is regarding Professor Madden's response to what I asked about Sweden. Is it her understanding also that they are moving in a more...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Deputy O'Connell picked up on some of what I said about research. It is important that we take a very honest look at whatever the research shows. That is the principle that must always guide us. We have to be conscious of issues of objectivity and test for it, understand what research is capable of showing us and its limitations because research does not always cover all of reality. We...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: There is a presumption of truthfulness, which is a very different issue with the greatest respect.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: It is one thing to put an unusual and onerous obligation on somebody. It is another thing to facilitate the direct telling of falsehood. I do not think Professor Madden is comparing like with like here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Does Professor Madden think that is acceptable?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Therefore any legal fictions are inappropriate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: That is separate question. Procuring gametes for the purpose of reproduction is a very active intervention. It is known in advance and it has none of the other messiness of life. I do not think one would be comparing like with like.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Would that also include the birth mother in the case of surrogacy?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I wish to tease that out with Professor Hayes. We do not need evidence to show that people believe there is a fundamental breach of rights here in that in the case of surrogacy there is a sundering of child's relationship with the-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: -----woman who gave birth to him or her. In the case of donor-assisted human reproduction there is a sundering of the relationship with the genetic parent. I think many people will see the injustice of that one much more clearly. There is so much focus these days on people knowing who they are through genetic research and all of that. We do not need research to know there is controversy...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: Can I ask for an answer? Maybe I should wait until Professor Madden returns, depending on who wants to answer. I asked some very specific questions about whether it should be that donors are required to keep the register updated or whether that obligation should be placed on providers of this service.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: All our guests deserve better than to be subject to what I am hearing about their opinions. We all have our opinions. Everybody, especially our guests, is giving time to the committee, and all of them deserve considerable credit for appearing and speaking about their personal and professional experience and knowledge. I am happy with what each person has done-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The witnesses are doing us a good service. They are not well served by the Deputy saying it is just their opinion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: The courtesies are not quite there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I am happy to wait because Senator Dolan has not been in at all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I thank the witnesses for sharing their experiences. When people come in who contribute to the best of their ability based on the facts as they know them, whether from professional or academic experience, anecdotal evidence or the fruit of research of many people, and it is not their full-time job, they deserve significant credit. I would not like to see a culture in the Oireachtas where...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: General Scheme of Assisted Human Reproduction Bill 2017: Discussion (Resumed) (19 Dec 2018)

Rónán Mullen: I asked about people having the ability to trace their genetic kin.

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