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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Forthcoming ECOFIN Council: Minister for Finance (18 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister has said we may not apply in November.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Forthcoming ECOFIN Council: Minister for Finance (18 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Why would we not apply for money that we believe should be paid back to us through the ESM in November? Can the Minister give me any rationale as to why, if we have taken the decision to apply anyway, we would not apply so that we could reduce our debt?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Forthcoming ECOFIN Council: Minister for Finance (18 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I find this extraordinary, given that we have been told the diplomatic support has been lined up for the last three years since the Government took office. I believe genuinely that the Government intends to drag this out in the hope that there will be public fatigue, the shares in AIB can be sold to the market for €12 billion and there will then be no real reason to apply to the ESM,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Forthcoming ECOFIN Council: Minister for Finance (18 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Let us be clear-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Forthcoming ECOFIN Council: Minister for Finance (18 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am not begrudging. I have asked the Minister parliamentary questions in the Dáil on how a retroactive application of this instrument would apply. The reply has been that the Minister has no responsibility to answer those questions in the Dáil. I am an Opposition spokesperson asking how a retroactive instrument which could benefit the State to the sum of €20 billion could...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Forthcoming ECOFIN Council: Minister for Finance (18 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Not only will the Minister not answer in the Dáil, he will still not answer the question I have asked him for the third time. I put it again. Given that the rules of the direct recapitalisation instrument, which include, in the first instance, bringing the banks up to a core tier 1 capital ratio of 4.5%, in the second instance, a bailout, and in the third instance, applying to the ESM,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: May I ask one brief final question on BEPS? The argument has been made by a witness who came before the committee previously that BEPS has the potential to reduce our corporate tax base. It is not simply about opportunities as there also are risks for Ireland here, regardless of whether one believes these are morally right things that should happen. There is a danger here and the point I...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: This has been an interesting debate, but we are probably not much further along on the question of defining an effective rate of tax. In the case of Apple, one of the major multinationals with operations in this country which we want to keep here, its chief executive officer gave written evidence to the United States Senate hearings that its effective tax rate was calculated by the Irish...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The point Professor Stewart made was that the definition of tax residency runs to approximately 85 pages. The devil is, therefore, in the detail. Professor Stewart stated that Ireland should probably not move unilaterally. Yesterday, at a meeting with multinational companies and major employers, one of their representatives informed me that Apple was at one end of the spectrum and it was...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That will be final contribution.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Obviously the Revenue Commissioners give out advance opinions, and about 120 of them are given out each year. I have no issue with advance opinions. As Ms O'Brien states every citizen can ask for an advance opinion from the arm of the State, the Revenue Commissioners. What is at issue is whether there is a cosier relationship or an open door for certain companies, while technically any...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: This is all on the public record.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I will not mention any official. The State would ask a company to sell their products. That type of relationship does not exist for the person who has to pay his household charge or water tax. Nobody would contact a bricklayer to advise him to contact the Department and sell the product to them. There is a different type of relationship with multinational companies. I wish to put some...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Under the tax law, the effective tax rate is 2.2%. If we are trying to find out the effective tax rate of the multinational companies, then we could not say that it is 2.2% because legally they are not obliged to pay tax on some of those profits. Would it be correct to say that?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: It does. Are the companies paying tax on some of those profits in a different jurisdiction?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That is the point I want to tease out. Professor Stewart has provided in his own assessment report of 2004, that when we are looking at net income in Ireland, that these US companies had a net income of 143 billion----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: -----and the tax was 2.2%.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Is Professor Stewart saying that of the $143 billion in income, that the US companies did not pay tax on that income in any other jurisdiction?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Joint Sub-Committee on Global Corporate Taxation: Assessment of Measures Relating to Corporation Tax in Ireland: Discussion (17 Jun 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That is basically when he looks at the effective tax rate. When we look at US companies in terms of net income, above $1 in every $10 is resident here and they are paying 2.2% tax.

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