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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I do not care how far it goes back. The bottom line is that Mr. Doyle spoke about transparency. This does not help the Department's case in that regard, and it does not help anybody to think that €4 billion should not be accounted for and that local authorities should be treated differently when it is being accounted for by everybody else. This is about grants. What is Mr. Doyle's...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: We have seen how that works. It is well documented as well so there really is no accountability. I do not think that in his position as Secretary General of the Department, Mr. Doyle should be giving them an out. A total of €6 billion of Exchequer funding is going through our local authorities. People want transparency but they get anything but and the organisation that is supposed...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Could Mr. Doyle elaborate on that? How does the Department guarantee accountability and management in that regard if it has given them an out?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: The audit trail we are talking about in this instance is NOAC-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: We were here last year where we showed up several discrepancies that got through that system.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: What was done about it?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I asked what the service did about them.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: The public will know it all ended up in a big fat zero. That is why we need more accountability and for this to come under the auspices of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Mr. Doyle could go on for the next two minutes but nothing happened and the public will make up their own minds about that. I will move on to planning. What is happening with An Bord Pleanála and planning is...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: To be fair, that does not warrant a clap on the back because what happened the year before was unprecedented and no decisions were being made. How long should it take to decide on a one-off housing appeal?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: How can Mr. Hogan justify 18 weeks multiplied by three?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: It is making people homeless. I know of people who have been given their notice. They have applied for planning permission and expected to have no issue. They probably will not have an issue but are now homeless while waiting for a decision from An Bord Pleanála.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Despite having sent numerous emails, I keep getting the same response, which is that the board is looking at it but does not know how much longer the decision will take. Is that not ridiculous?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Is the board short-staffed?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I will come back in.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: I want to come back to Mr. Doyle. I just searched for the email. That planning appeal was on 18 September 2022. One person in An Bord Pleanála answered me five times with the same thing. The length of time people expect is 18 weeks. That is what is in the statute. How can Mr. Doyle explain a 13-month delay in the decision-making process? What role does he have to play in this? I...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Each time I was replied to by email I was told that it was being brought to the attention of the board. Mr. Hogan probably has something further to add.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: How many staff is the organisation short?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: How many staff work in the Office of the Planning Regulator, OPR?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: Would those 40 staff be proficient in planning?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Verona Murphy: That is not the context of my question. They clearly are. Would it not be a better policy, Mr. Doyle, to divert 40 staff from a regulatory post in respect of which next year we will clearly discuss nothing but the legal fees the regulator has entailed into An Bord Pleanála? We are in the worst crisis ever. I am quoting from a newspaper article in the Irish Independentin which Mr. Ian...

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