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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I do not agree with Mr. Dunne. Am I being unfair to him when I say that he believed that it just needed to be regularised and that nothing improper was done in the past?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Did Mr. Dunne ask himself why nothing had happened about the 2008 report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: And the 2006 report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: What answers did he come up with?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: May I ask the chief superintendents, the Deputy Commissioner and the Assistant Commissioners a question? The witnesses can tell me if I am wrong but this is what happened in 2009. On 18 September 2009, Deputy Commissioner Ignatius Rice wrote regarding the Garda Training College and financial regulation. He clearly said that it was important to point out that all the named companies and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That there was a mentality that public money going into An Garda Síochána to pay for gardaí then goes into the restaurant, a profit is made and the money is channelled into various groups for sporting facilities because, in the opinion of that commissioner, there was not enough money coming from the Government. If there was money left over at the end of the year, it was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: He said that he believed that any surplus money did not belong to the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That is surplus money that was generated from public funds.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: The witness does not hold with that view.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I want to come back to that view and lack of candour. Right up to this year the head of the audit committee was speaking to Deputy Commissioner Ó Cualáin. I am very bad on the titles, gabh mo leithscéal. Níl sé scríobhtha. Bheadh sé i bhfad níos eascaí dá mba rud é go raibh sé scríobhtha. They are talking about lack of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Can I just interrupt the witness? All of that has repeatedly been said by the Commissioner and others and that has all been accepted. It has not been accepted, however, by the people who carried out the various reports including the McGee report, the Nolan report and the internal audit, which said that all this was off the balance sheet, irregular and outside of financial control. Giving...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: It is more realistic-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Realistically, it is more likely to be 3 o'clock-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: Ms McMahon and Mr. McCabe have been very clear. They have said that Deputy Commissioner Rice's viewpoint was right. They accept that the money belonged to An Garda Síochána. Is that not what they are saying? I want to be fair. I asked them this question this morning. I read out the deputy commissioner's words. He said the money belonged to An Garda Síochána. My...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. Ms McMahon has been very clear. I do not understand how An Garda Síochána can have an investigation with an open mind if that is its belief because it is clearly against what Mr. McGee, Mr. Nolan and the internal audit said. For my simple mind, money came through a Vote to pay for the gardaí who were training. That money went into the restaurant. Surplus...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: I understand what Ms McMahon has told me, but I ask her to listen to my point of view. I am no expert but we are learning quickly from the Comptroller and Auditor General. Clearly, even back in 2008, the Garda was not complying with the regulations that existed at that time. We will come to Mr. McGee's report in 2008 which set out the difficulties then. I have difficulty understanding how...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: That is Ms McMahon's understanding of what it was.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: We are going to go back to the Department of Justice and Equality, because all along the Garda has been consistent in stating the Department was fully aware of this, tolerated it and not just tolerated but fully encouraged it as a way of generating funds.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - Garda Síochána - Internal Audit Report on Garda College, Templemore (Resumed)
(14 Jun 2017)

Catherine Connolly: The Department of Justice and Equality has to answer something here, because the message coming all the time from the Garda, through correspondence and testimony, is that the Department sanctioned all this one way or another. Perhaps "sanctioned" is too strong a word. Did the Department sanction it?

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