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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Does that mean that one could edit or redact the direction?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Owing to the commercial sensitivity of some directions, the Minister may have to allow a period to elapse before a direction is published as the provision does not allow for the publication of a redacted direction.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: For example, a Minister may issue a direction to Irish Water, but it may contain commercially sensitive material such as the rationale behind the decision. Could a Minister use this section to claim what was required was the publishing of the full direction but that it was not reasonably practical to do so until a certain time because a portion of it contained commercially sensitive material?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That is the key point. Under this section, the Minister cannot publish a direction and redact the portions that are commercially sensitive because it is either published in full or not at all.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, it must be published in full or not at all. If I were to submit a freedom of information request, the part of the direction that was commercially sensitive would be redacted. However, there is no flexibility in section 19 to allow the Minister to do so.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 19: In page 27, line 14, after “body” to insert “who will lay it before the Houses of the Oireachtas”.This amendment relates to annual reports and is connected to the previous two amendments about laying documents before the Houses of the Oireachtas. Section 21(2) states:The Agency shall submit each report under subsection (1) to the Minister...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Again, there is no requirement on the agency to publish these reports. The amendment is about providing for transparency. The issues of commercial sensitivity can be dealt with. Freedom of information legislation has different rules which allow such information to be redacted. However, there should be some reports on performance. It would be better for decision -making because the agency...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 16: In page 26, line 14, to delete “body.” and substitute the following:“body,and any request from a Minister under this subsection requires the prior approval of the Houses of the Oireachtas.”.I will withdraw the amendment on the proviso that I can reintroduce it on Report Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 17: In page 26, lines 26 and 27, to delete “in such manner as he or she considers appropriate” and substitute “and lay them before the Houses of the Oireachtas within one week”.Tá an leasú seo ag déileáil leis an ábhar céanna a bhí á phlé againn roimh seo, fá dtaobh stiúradh a thabhairt don...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: There are three issues which arise in the context of section 19(7). The first relates to timely publication, the second - which arises on foot of the Minister of State's reply - to the content of the direction and the third to the forum in which the direction is published. Let us deal first with timely publication. There is no stipulation in the section in the context of what period of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome that we will have some clarity on whether there are legislative bars or blocks on the disposal of the relevant State assets. However, the Minister of State explicitly stated that the Bill does not confer on the Minister any additional power. The legislation establishes the agency as the body that can, and most likely will, be used if a circumstance were to arise in which State...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I move amendment No. 15: In page 26, to delete lines 9 to 14.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Let us look at one investment from the recent past. A total of €31 billion was issued in different tranches in a promissory note. The Minister was able to make that decision. I think the promissory note was issued on three different occasions. Does the Minister know how many times that was debated in the Houses of the Oireachtas at the time of the issuance?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, the point I am making is that the promissory note was not debated once in the Houses of the Oireachtas. The reason it was not debated in the Houses of Oireachtas, when it was issued on three different occasions, was that there was no requirement for the Minister to seek prior approval for such a thing. The Minister may say it is implicit that the Minister needs Oireachtas...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: It is patent nonsense.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: It does not. Honest to God, that is appalling. The Minister of State is supposed to be responsible for this legislation. Is he trying to-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, is the Minister of State trying to peddle it to us that the only thing this legislation does is to provide that NewERA be asked for advice about the sale or disposal of an asset? It is not. I went through the section repeatedly. The Minister of State does not want to own up to this issue. The Minister can direct the agency to sell off his or her own shares. It can actually...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: There is no requirement in legislation. With respect to the Minister of State, he is coming before this committee with a provision that allows the Minister to direct the agency in which he or she holds a share to dispose of his or her shares. The only designated body about which the Minister seems to be knowledgeable is Irish Water. He does not know whether this section allows for a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That is the point. The amendments are being dismissed and the Minister of State is saying there is no point in seeking the approval of the Oireachtas when it is already required in the first instance.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: That relates to amendment No. 18. Is the Minister of State claiming the Houses of the Oireachtas would have to approve the sale of State assets in the first instance?

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