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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: This is an issue that goes right through all of the other committees and agencies that are being dissolved. What is the position in relation to the personnel on the committees that the Bill would dissolve? By giving effect to the Bill, for example, dissolving the National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission, what is the position of the individuals who serve on the commission? Are they retained?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: We are cancelling their contracts, if that is the case.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Are there termination payments that will accrue from this section in the Bill?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: When the board goes, therefore, they go with it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: What of amendment No. 47? The Minister did not discuss it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Under the rules just agreed if this money is made available and there is a banking problem in future bondholders and shareholders will have to take a hit and this money will be used.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The first part is a bail-in between bondholders and shareholders. The second part relates to the State's resources. If legislation provides that 100% of an investment fund that should be available to invest in the Irish economy and create employment can be scrubbed if banks need money the money will be called on before it is possible to access the European Stability Mechanism, ESM. The...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The only point the Minister failed to make was that this provision is included to ensure the ATMs keep working. The previous Minister for Finance thought it was prudent to inject €31 billion into Anglo Irish Bank and I am sure there were also consultations with the Central Bank then. This is supposed to be an investment vehicle for economic activity and job creation and we have...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Two years ago last week the Government heralded a great moment, the separation of banking and State. It was a European decision and now the Minister of State wants to create the link again. In the event of a bank going bust the Government wants us to allow the bank access to 100% of this investment fund via the agency. If the separation of toxic banking and the State two years ago was so...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The Cabinet, which approved this provision collectively, feels the only aspect of Irish society in which the Minister should have a say in spending this money is banking. Two areas have been identified. One relates to disturbances in the economy, which most likely means banking, and the other is simply banks. Housing is not covered and nor are the environment, broadband and so on. The...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The key point is one can invest outside the State so long as one creates economic activity within the State.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I have an issue with only one of the amendments, namely, amendment No. 35. The fund will monitor and keep under review an investment strategy for the fund in accordance with section 39, but it excludes the directed investments. One cannot have a strategy for a directed investment because one has been directed to invest in a certain way. The amendment mentions monitoring and keeping under...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: There should be a role for the agency with regard to directed investment. This is investment directed by the Minister, who has the ability to direct, sell off or dump the assets and stipulate conditions. We have dealt with remuneration and structures; experts and the best minds in Ireland are being gathered to deal with investment. If the Minister directs to invest in a bank, the agency...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I would say beware the Department of Finance.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I will examine it on Report Stage. It would strengthen the Bill if provision were made for this without interfering with directed investment. Approximately €16 billion of the €22 billion in the National Pensions Reserve Fund was directed. It could not decide to deal only with the other €6 billion. The agency must have a role and everything should be joined up. I am...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: This is one of the big problems with the legislation. The Bill provides the Minister with certain functions if, following consultation with the Central Bank, he or she is of the opinion the performance of the functions so provided is necessary in the public interest for either or both purposes. There are only two purposes for directed investment, namely, to remedy a serious disturbance in...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State has the wrong end of the stick regarding my amendment No. 30 which would not take away the commercial basis for where the fund lends. We in Sinn Féin have our own proposals for how that should be used, obviously. We met representatives of the troika when they used to come here to discuss how that might be managed, including off balance sheet and so on. Obviously,...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Section 39(5) states: "The assets of the Fund may be held or invested in or outside the State."

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: However, there is nothing to prevent fulfilling the commitments the State gave in the St. Andrews Agreement to invest in the A5 infrastructure project.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill 2014: Committee Stage (1 Jul 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Obviously, we do not want the investment in areas such as China. However, the commitment that was withdrawn or scaled back is supposed to be revisited as part of the spending programme for next year. I know this provision is included because the assets are outside the State and they need to be freed up in terms of cash and being able to be reinvested. However, the legislation does not...

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