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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: -----in the context of the children's hospital's timeline? We will leave it at the briefing note, as I wish to discuss another matter. I thank the witnesses for the briefing notes on disability services. I was glad to see a recognition of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, UNCRPD, but as noted here, there is a discussion around regionality under the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: This is all about capital funding.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: When that guidance is not adhered to by senior management, what does the HSE do?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Where population numbers do not align with the service decisions being made in terms of capital funds, what happens?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: It is difficult for someone like me to follow that. In all of the conversations we have had about Owenacurra over the past year, I still do not know where the people who were moved out of the centre have landed. Even that level of basic detail is not available to people who are trying to scrutinise such decisions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: It has, but the information we require has not been.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: To be clear, I do not wish to discuss individual patients. Rather, I wish to scrutinise issues like moving people to temporary accommodation in Garnish House, which is outside east Cork, instead of allowing them to stay in their own region. I have many more questions and would like a second round, if possible.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: Over a number of sessions, I have been trying to understand the interaction between the HSE, the Department and, to be honest, also the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and the Office of Public Works, OPW. We had the OPW here not so long ago and we were asking about some issues around funding decisions. I am aware, obviously, that officials...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: My question is not specific. I am only using Garnish House as an example of spending. I can give another example. It was proposed that Millfield House would be sold to capitalise another project. It has not been sold. It was valued in 2020 at €630,000. Since then, the State has paid €609,000 on security. What does the Department do when it sees numbers like that coming...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: In fairness to the HSE, it makes operational decisions but the Department does not seem to be doing much by way of cost-benefit analysis. The Department is a step above the HSE in terms of decision-making.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: I am asking about oversight not policy decisions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: I will turn again to the Department. I am familiar with one community healthcare organisation, CHO, area because we have been arguing about Owenacurra for a year. In that area, I can, off the top of my head, cite two examples where we have paid money in security and rent for an asset we do not have or have paid security costs to the value of an asset that we are not using. Do our guests...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: We have heard that. Is Mr. O'Grady's position that the cumulative effect is not a consideration?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: The Department does not concern itself with those issues.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: We are talking about the period since 2020.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: It is a three-year period.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: That is for a vacant building that is worth €630,000.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: My point is that I am fairly confident that I could find such examples in every CHO in the country. If we add it all up, we are talking about millions and millions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: The crux of my point is that it is not visible to the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Health Service Executive - Financial Statements 2021 (Resumed)
(2 Feb 2023)

Neasa Hourigan: It is not overseeing the money now, according to what I have learned.

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