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Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: We are talking about different things here. One went to Fine Gael Dublin Central. The other was to the Fine Gael nationally.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I am aware what the aggregate is, but I am sure the Deputy is correct. They went to different party entities. As I have said from the very beginning, one was the sale of the tickets and the other was the commercial value we are attributing to postering and the use of a van.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: My understanding here is that the value of the money referred to by the Deputy is below the personal threshold. As I have said, and I will go back to the point I made, one was for Fine Gael Dublin Central and the other was for tickets that went to Fine Gael nationally.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The €430 figure the Deputy referred to is the commercial use of a corporate van.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is adding together two personal figures and a corporate figure. They are different. The two personal figures relate to the sale of tickets that I brought forward myself, and the commercial value of postering, which Mr. Stone paid for. The other figure the Deputy refers to is for a corporate donation that came from the Designer Group, that corporate donation being the commercial...

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: Just to conclude-----

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: -----not only are we talking about funding that went to two different entities, which are Fine Gael Dublin Central and Fine Gael nationally, we are also talking about them being paid from two different people.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: Two different entities.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy cannot make repeat assertions and assume they have or may have a truth here. As I said a moment ago, of the three different figures the Deputy has referred to, the figure of €430 is for the commercial use of a van-----

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: -----which was a corporate donation from the Dublin Designer Group, a portion of which will be refunded. The other two figures referred to by the Deputy are personal figures. Those personal figures are under the donation threshold-----

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: It is important to be clear about that point, because an impression is being created that the figures being brought forward are in some way-----

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Deputy. I agree that ethics and standards do matter. It is why I am so disappointed to be in this position, having to explain who put up my posters, having to explain I assumed it happened on a voluntary basis, and having to take up the time of the House making a justification for it, let alone having to revise my expenses statements with SIPO. Regarding the point the Deputy...

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank Deputy Nash. I appreciate his recognition of the value I place on integrity and standards. I am so aware of the issues I have created due to postering activity that happened on my behalf at election time. That is the issue. It concerns who put up my posters, assuming it happened on a voluntary basis. On the point the Deputy put to me, I thank him again for recognising this was...

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: -----and my amended expenses I will make available.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Deputy very much for her questions. I want to pick up on the points she made that ignorance of the law is no defence. Of course, SIPO will impartially evaluate what has happened and the consequences of it. Not knowing is not a defence but proportionality in political debate is also a point I would make.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy referred to political experience. I am aware she has very extensive political experience from her many successful election campaigns in the constituency beside mine, but I have some political experience too. I have political experience of being a candidate, particularly in the 2020 campaign, during which I was performing a national duty because of my party.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I was rarely in my constituency office.

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The reality is-----

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I will conclude briefly but I am going to answer. If you are in an environment in which the vast majority, if not all, your activities happen on a voluntary basis-----

Statement by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (24 Jan 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: -----the assumption I made was that a small share of it was too.

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