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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: They will be doing three particular things. First, they will be engaging with the European Commission to ensure we are accessing the money on time for projects that meet the criteria of the fund. Second, when the funding is accessed, they will work with Departments to ensure the money is spent in the way that is intended. Third, they will look at both the communication of that work and how...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy's questions reflect the key point to the effect that on the issues that I have referred to regarding legacy construction issues, for both of those matters it did involve the standards of that time not being met, either in construction or in the use of raw materials. Of course, that is really relevant to the decisions that Government has to make. On the Deputy's question...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The way we are doing that is through the recruitment of new staff. Those staff are being recruited to allow the laboratory to meet some of the standards to which the Deputy just referred, in particular those that the Coroner Service has with regard to post-mortem samples and those relating to the new EU legislation on food safety. The way that need is being met at the moment is through the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: They are in a position to meet the needs of many different clients, which range from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine all the way across to the Office of the State Pathologist. They have an incredibly wide range of clients whose needs they must meet. Do they have the ability to meet those needs? Yes, I believe they do, but it is also worth saying that this is an area in...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: On a couple of occasions, the Deputy has raised the issue of the sending of work abroad. I do not have that detailed information regarding what share of their work is performed outside the jurisdiction but I will ask my officials to get some information on that, given the Deputy has raised it twice. What I can tell him is that the kinds of targets that the State Laboratory has include, for...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: As the Deputy will know, the officials of the Comptroller and Auditor General oversee the issues in regard to use of money for the secret service Vote and that is a task they take very seriously. They verify the use of the money for the activities of those it was meant for. In regard to the operation of the secret service Vote, at this point, I have to ask the Deputy to bear with me as I...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: This refers to staff who were working for the HSE. I am advised that efforts were made to reach agreement on this matter but they were not successful. I understand the matter will be subject to a Labour Court hearing on 17 February. Therefore, at the end of next week, there will be a Labour Court hearing that I am sure will play a role in bringing the matter to a conclusion.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I know it has gone on. It relates to a report from 2007 so it has been going on for 16 years now. I am not aware of which side was playing the stronger role here in terms of agreement not being reached but, clearly, there was a very significant disagreement if this issue has gone on for so long.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: We do not have the information available here but I will get the information and write to the committee.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I am aware of this issue. It came up in the Cabinet committee on Ukraine at the start of last week. I understand that due to the volume of claims and payments needing to be processed, it is not happening at the speed which those providing services want and should get. The reason, as I said, is due to the number of claims being administered by the Department of Children, Equality,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: Absolutely. It was discussed last week.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand the disclosures from Mr. Corr were made directly to the Committee of Public Accounts, which has considered them. We engage with general issues around value for money within the health system all of the time. If I were to identify any area of Government expenditure that is the subject of high levels of focus from my Department, it would be the expenditure within the Department...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: It has happened in this case. However, the organ within our State which performs that role is the Attorney General. At the heart of this issue is entitlement to public services and funding. It was therefore appropriate for the Attorney General to do the work he has done over the past week. We then made the report publicly available. Mr. Corr is providing a valuable public service with...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: I understand. We engage with the Department of Health at official level beyond weekly on issues that are raised publicly and that matter to both Departments. Yes, we do. The understanding of both the Department of Health and my Department regarding the use of public money by the HSE and our health and social services has, in my view, very significantly improved and changed in recent years....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The whistleblowers the Chair has referred to, with the information they have made available to us, have played an important role in our public life and in helping us improve how we make public services available to our citizens. The issues the Chair has raised are the reasons last year the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, brought in legislation to improve our whistleblower regime. That is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: There have not been any demands placed on the State Laboratory to perform the kind of assessment of medicines or drugs the Deputy has referred to. My understanding is that the Health Products Regulatory Authority, which is the main regulatory body in that area, would evaluate and regulate medicines and life science, rather than the State Laboratory. On the demand for toxicology services,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: The projections are done on the basis of looking at the outturn from the previous year and the evaluation the Comptroller and Auditor General provides of the use of that funding. Therefore, the outturn for the previous year is looked at and my Department, in conjunction with other Departments, then forms an assessment as to what the appropriate and necessary figure will be for the following year.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: This is why it is important to look at these issues in the round and why the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, established an independent review panel in respect of the issue of recruitment to and remuneration for senior posts in the Civil Service. We need to assess what the appropriate level of remuneration is for some key posts at Civil Service level and in our semi-State bodies. I expect...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: We are working on it now because it is a very challenging area. As the Deputy will know, the Oireachtas enacted the Official Languages (Amendment) Act on 22 December 2021. That Act includes a target that one fifth of all new hires by 2030 must be proficient in Irish. We have a long way to go. At the moment, according to an audit undertaken by the Irish language commissioner in 2022, it is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 11 - Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 - State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 - Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 - National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 - Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(8 Feb 2023)

Paschal Donohoe: Approximately, we now have HR shared services supplied to 44 public service bodies, payroll shared services supplied to 57 public service bodies and financial shared services provided to 48 public service bodies. They are the three different services the NSSO provides and they are supplied to between 44 and 57 different bodies. As for the target for bringing in additional public service...

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