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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I thank the Deputy for his question. I give credit to him, in that when I was Chair of the Committee on Business, Enterprise and Innovation during the term of the previous Dáil, his attendance was always great. It is lovely to see him.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: Does Mr. Higgins wish to come in there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I thank Mr. Higgins for that. Might Mr. O'Regan be able to answer the specific question about disability and where the HSE outsources some of its supports?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I think the Deputy's final question was about access, that is, a child with autism trying to access a CAMHS team. Will Dr. Niazi answer that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: Ms Gray can answer the Deputy's question about the timelines.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I will ask Mr. O'Regan to answer that question. If it was a mental health question specifically, I would answer it. I know it is of great frustration to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, that 700 whole-time equivalents are funded but it is proving very difficult to recruit. Regardless of whether it is public, private or voluntary, we are all dipping into the same pool, whether mental...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: We know, and we know exactly where the Senator is coming from. I am sorry that people feel that way, as that is not the intention.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: As the Senator knows, the Mental Health Commission is undertaking a review of CAMHS. The HSE is performing an independent review of CAMHS as well. I have convened a series of roundtable meetings-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I thank the Senator. At the start, I complimented this committee, which has done Trojan work and which has rightly put a focus on children and people with autism. I was delighted to attend an event in Waterford with Deputy Ó Cathasaigh. Waterford is trying to become the first autism-friendly city in Ireland. It is a three-year campaign. It was on a Sunday afternoon and there were...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I thank Deputy Joan Collins for that. Nobody will disagree with her in relation to recruitment and retention and the challenges there. Previous Governments may not have the funding, but there are 700 whole-time equivalent staff who are now funded for disability services. There are approximately 400 who are funded for mental services and who are currently going through the recruitment...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: We can hear the Deputy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I thank Dr. Niazi for that. In the context of CAMHS, it is important, as Dr. Niazi noted, to state that we are looking at the model. We have 74 CAMHS teams that are not fully staffed. The question is whether we would be better off having fewer fully-staffed teams and a hub-and-spoke model in place. We are considering everything in this regard, and no decisions have been made. This is why...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: Obviously, I cannot comment on individual cases. If the Deputy wants to send on the details of that case, my two colleagues here will certainly look at it. Perhaps the broader picture is the issue whereby some young people are receiving supports up to age 18 and then age out. The Deputy referred to this young person as being 19. We are looking at that issue in respect of mental health....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: For everybody who is involuntarily detained in a mental health facility in our approved centres, of which we have 56 all over the country, the Mental Health Commission has a huge role to play. As Dr. Niazi said, each person is entitled to a tribunal with a solicitor and an advocate who is a consultant psychiatrist. The Mental Health Commission is in charge of these tribunals for every...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: I can.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: With all due respect, I was trying to answer the question. The Deputy asked what plan we have. At the moment, we have an intervention to try to reduce long-waiters off the waiting list for primary care psychology. This is after there have been 48% more referrals in the space of two years. Any system is going to be under pressure. We also have a waiting list initiative running across six...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: We tried to discuss the issue at the roundtable series of discussions, which comprised NEPS, disability and CAMHS. Mr. Higgins is the assistant national director for change planning and delivery for disability and mental health services and, therefore, there is a real focus on the area and he will comment. Many families experience great frustration due to the silo nature of the supports...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: The Deputy made the point that there should be no wrong door and that has to be the approach because, regardless of whether it mental health, disability, autism or whatever, when a child is referred, it is done for a reason and where one door does not open, there has to be some door.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: Ensuring that there is a door was part of our roundtable discussion with the stakeholders. We spend €80 million each year on mental health services and work with various NGOs whether that is Jigsaw, MyMind, Turn2Me or the text line 50808. For some people, a referral to one of these organisations might be sufficient at that stage. The issue is to find the right door but there has to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Autism: Autism Policy: Discussion (Resumed) (23 May 2023)

Mary Butler: Under the social care model, the HSE will now employ, as a healthcare worker, a person who has completed two modules of a QQI 5 course and commits to study the remaining modules while working or earn and learn. I always say that we cannot compromise on standards.

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