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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: There need to be sufficient airport checks in place to make sure those who are presenting as children are children, but we also need to address the issue of how they are being allowed to leave the country unaccompanied.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: We need to help the ones who are genuine and we cannot do so if we have a system that is too loose and not rule-based. On staffing, I refer to the drop in the number of social workers. We spoke about the CDNTs and CAMHS. That has a consequence that I, as a public representative, find very frustrating. I get a significant number of complaints about it. If the children are not receiving...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: Okay. What are the current figures? The report back in September stated the deficit was 340 social workers and 244 social care workers. The figures provided this morning indicate there are far fewer vacancies now, but there has not been significant recruitment. Is Ms Duggan saying that report was inaccurate?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: Ms Duggan stated that we need approximately 500 a year.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: Local authorities need social workers in many cases. Ms Duggan outlined a number of matters on which Tusla is collaborating with a university in Scotland. It is also dealing with the Department of further and higher education. Mention was made of apprenticeships, which would be brilliant to be brought on stream. I am not sure how we will get around this. It is a societal issue. It is...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: Is it a four-year apprenticeship?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: For the person coming out of secondary school, explain the pathway. To get to an apprenticeship, what do they have to do?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: After coming out of secondary school, could a person be a qualified social worker in four or five years?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: It is still quite long, is it not?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: They would be in paid employment after three years.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: I know. At what stage would they be in paid employment? If they leave school at 18, then they have to do their-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: -----undergraduate degree. Will that take two years?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: So they could be in paid employment by 22 or 23 years of age.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: I just wanted to get a picture of what is happening there. Tusla's budget has increased this year to about €1.1 billion. That gives it capacity. The balance of admin, management and front-line staff has been covered. The witnesses have explained why they are using admin in some cases to supplement and support people on the front line and carry some of the workload. Is it the case...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: Is there any two-way traffic?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: On the exit interviews, what percentage roughly are moving into the private sector?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: What percentage? Is it 20% or 50%?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: The question I am asking is----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022 - Tusla-Child and Family Agency (29 Feb 2024)

Brian Stanley: One of the things that has come out this morning, which is not new to many of us, is that staffing levels in the children's disability network teams and CAMHS across a lot of the country are insufficient. Where I live in the midlands, the last census of staffing levels I saw said that they were at 50% to 60% of where they should be. Staffing levels in some therapeutic services are at 30%...

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