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Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: It is necessary to go back to the parent Act that established the representative association. It did not envisage ten associations or splinter groups. It did not envisage that at all. There is a structure for representing the interests of members. That is through the representative association and invariably there are internal consultation processes that RACO and PDFORRA conduct. They...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: That is the fundamental point that has just been made. Mr. Kevin O'Higgins said in 1924 that those who wear the uniform of the State must serve the State and that principle has stood us in good stead. I have been working in the best interests of the Defence Force members. We have done a lot in the last year and a half and before that in terms of improving matters across the board. In many...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Yes, if they are in a room, they put their hand up and say they are members of the Defence Forces and they believe in X, Y, or Z. On the point about Government policy, let us turn it around. Are we really saying that we are inviting members of the Defence Forces to criticise Government policy publicly, left, right and centre? If we do not have a provision like this in the legislation, that...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: -----the positivity of all of that is in the context of diversity. Senator Craughwell put it very eloquently when he spoke of the changes that have occurred in terms of diversity within our Defence Forces. I also regret that the Defence Forces were not facilitated to reflect that diversity. The vast majority of our Defence Forces have no truck with those who engage in serious assaults on...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: We are on the way back up.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: If members of the Reserve Defence Forces are called out - for example one member of the Reserve Defence Forces is in Lebanon - while they are on that service, for that period, they are not in a position to comment, but off that service they are under their own HR.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: The Senator has resigned from them.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: It does not, unless they are on permanent service, which is rare.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Yes.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I have dealt with the matter already.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Does the Senator wish "Government policy" to be removed?

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: That is without prejudice to the representative associations' ability and capacity to advocate on behalf of their members' interests, which is quite a broad range.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: Yes, it does. They advocate for housing. The representative bodies have been established with a function, to represent their members. The representational nature and function of the representative bodies is in no way stymied or undermined by any provision in this Bill. The inclusion of "without prejudice" is to make that legally crystal clear. The Attorney General and his office are...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: The issue is that Senators are seeking legal guarantees in respect of the representative function of the representative associations. That is secure; I made sure of it. I went back to check it. The Attorney General is clear that this is achieved in the section relating to prejudice.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: We indicated earlier that we believe a political Independent is covered by the term "political organisation".

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: As we speak, any consequences fall to the Minister to decide under the 1954 Act. The level of delegated authority is quite low. In fact, I envisage that the new CHOD legislation we discussed earlier will create a far more sensible picture in respect of disciplinary matters and so forth. As it stands, any discharge, for example, inevitably wends its way to the Minister and, ultimately, to...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: As the Senator knows, one rarely gets into the precision of a concentration of a substance in primary legislation.In the making of these regulations, the Minister of the day will take advice.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I thank the Senator for bringing his experience to bear on this debate. Essentially, what is happening here is that we are amending the principal Act to say a member of the Defence Forces shall be subject to drug testing in accordance with regulation made under this section. The Minister may, in relation to members of the Defence Forces, make regulations to provide for the establishment,...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I will be in the other House at 5.15 p.m. to seek Dáil approval to start PESCO and EDA projects.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Micheál Martin: I do not believe it should be as huge as is being presented.

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