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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: If Mr. Burke has some information available, raw or incomplete, he can send it to us. It would increase the confidence of the public in the system if it knew the system was watched and that records were kept.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are coming up to the weekly division time. I have a few short questions to ask. On the appropriation account, there is a figure for non-compliance with procurement rules which amounts to €3.371 million. I can read what is front of me and Ms Denning does not need to read it out. I want a more detailed, comprehensive note to be sent to the committee on each of the items. The...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are also assessing other Votes. For every Vote to which it applies, we ask the same question. We do not need to hear the details during this meeting. If Ms Denning has a note, she might send it in due course. The secretariat will specify precisely what we seek.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will ask the Courts Service to spell out the names and types of the contracts in further detail.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I turn to the Courts Service's annual report of 2018. On the first chart, it is stated that in court funds, the service managed €1.929 billion. What role has the service in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Quigley is probably the man to advise me best on the matter

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: He is head of resource management and accountant of the Courts of Justice. What is the difference between the Courts Service's annual report of 2018 and the financial statements for 2018 of the office of the accountant of the courts of justice? Are they the same or different?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Quigley stated "we", but I thought he is part of the Courts Service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: To whom does the Courts Service provide this service?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is confusing. Has Mr. Quigley a dual role, as accountant for the Judiciary in respect of this fund and in his work for the Courts Service?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: My question is in respect of the office of the accountant of the Courts of Justice, which are not audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. The Courts Service managed funds of €1.9 billion, which I mentioned, and I understand that at least 70% of it was for wards of court. For everything we have discussed thus far about the Courts Service, Mr. Quigley is answerable to the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is what I want Mr. Quigley to explain to the public. He is answerable to the committee for part of his role, namely, at the Courts Service, but he is not answerable to us when he wears the other hat.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am not saying there is anything wrong with that but he needs to explain-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: For the benefit of a person watching the meeting, we should state money is provided to run the Courts Service. Moneys are paid into the courts, such as for wards of court, which is a big issue. Coincidentally, it was a recurring matter at the State Claims Agency, which told us the majority of its payments every year are to the Courts Service. Our guests might not be aware of that-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: -----but we asked the agency to give us a breakdown because for the awards given for catastrophic injuries in hospitals, the people tend to be wards of court. We asked the agency, therefore, what proportion of the payments it makes is to the Courts Service. It was able to produce the figure because it knows where its payments go. It is understandably a high figure. It includes cases from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am trying to summarise it for people who are watching. It is reasonable. Our guests might be able to answer the following questions, but they might not. What is the general solicitor?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Do they report to Ms Denning?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who makes the decision to sell?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 22: Courts Service
(14 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: A judge makes the decision.

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