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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: I do not want Mr. Kelly to prejudice any ongoing investigations and I understand he may have to be circumspect in how he responds to my next question. Is the Garda in a situation where it may have data sets at the moment that it will be compelled to delete after the enactment of this Bill?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: We all appreciate that. This issue is arising out of obligations under European law and decisions of the European Court of Justice and other bodies. There is not a degree of flexibility insofar as the Oireachtas is concerned. Having said that, it appears the Bill will impair the Garda's ability to investigate crime. Is that a fair comment?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: I thank Mr. Kelly. My next question is to Mr. Kelleher. I put the same question to him at the meeting on Monday but I am afraid I must ask it again in public session. It is a concern to the committee and to me, as Chairman, that the legislation was presented to us with only a couple of days to go prior to its enactment. There was a pre-legislative scrutiny waiver request, which the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: I thank Mr. Kelleher. It was a little over time, but it is of interest to all the members. I think it is important that we have that question answered. The guidance will certainly be welcome, because a code of conduct has been mentioned a number of times, and a working group or some kind of industry engagement body.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: It certainly is. I just want to tease it out slightly before I move on to the next questioner. The new provisions in the Bill, in the updated text, allow the IP source data to be accessed, but the data that have been transmitted from those IP ranges are not accessible. We know the postbox, but we do not know what was in it. Is that right?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Jurisprudence has said it is permissible to retain the data indiscriminately for national security. We understand that is the exception that has been carved out. We understood from Monday's session there was no exception for serious crime, but apparently there is for IP ranges only. Is that right?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Is that data any good without knowing what is being transmitted through it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: We might return to it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Were those questions posed to anyone in particular?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: I call Deputy Pringle.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: On that point, I will give the Deputy extra time. I am taking advice on the matter because I was not aware of it either.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: It would be disappointing if that were the case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Yes. We are trying to find out whether that is the position. I have asked the clerk to make some inquiries - they are being made at the moment - to see whether that is correct. The purpose of this exercise is to inform and assist the finalisation of the Bill-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: We will suspend for a moment while we take some advice. It is an important issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: I welcome members and witnesses back in the room and thank them for bearing with us as we took some advices. A point of information had arisen which was of great concern. I can advise the meeting that it has been addressed. I spoke to the Government Chief Whip and the clerk has spoken to the Bills Office to be sure to be sure. A concern was raised very legitimately, and it was of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Absolutely. The Deputy's concerns are well aired and grounded. We as a committee can do our job which is to scrutinise, make recommendations and issue reports and members can table amendments as, indeed, can the Minister, after our discussion. I understand the Business Committee is discussing the scheduling requirements for next week and it is intended that this will be on the schedule...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Would it be possible given the European ruling to include the sunset clause?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: That sounds like the Danish case that we heard about earlier. I had the same thought myself..

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: It would be by a judge ultimately.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: General Scheme of the Communications (Retention of Data) (Amendment) Bill 2022: Discussion (30 Jun 2022)

James Lawless: Is Senator Gallagher online? I know he tried to come in earlier but we had to cut him short. Is the Senator in a position to speak now?

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