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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: That is grand. I am anxious to learn about this. Mr. Moloney covered the part in his opening statement in which he spoke about the public service and the Civil Service. He might tell me about the public sector leadership board. How does that function?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: All the Secretaries General are on that board and then there are outside agencies, one of them obviously being the HSE. How many people are on that board?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: The board meets three or four time per year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Is the practice of Secretaries General being appointed as ambassadors a normal thing? I heard Mr. Moloney's earlier exchange with Deputy O'Callaghan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Is that still the case? Obviously, it is.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Okay. I will go back to the recruitment of Secretaries General in Departments. The arrangement of a secondment during which a Secretary General retires and is not of pension age is part of the offer in terms of the job.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: How long has that been in place?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: What happened before then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Did that policy come through the public sector leadership board or something of its kind?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: That is what I am saying. Was it some other entity like that or was it Government policy?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: From 1987.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: I want to understand this. There are not many jobs like that are there? For example, if you are given a seven-year term as a Secretary General and if you reach the end of that seven years before retirement, that is generally it in the private sector. You can then get a job with the experience of your previous seven years or get an extension of seven years. Is it not better to promote the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Who is on that panel?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: This is the panel that has just been appointed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Remind me who is on it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: How long has Mr. Moloney been in the Civil Service? How many years has he been Secretary General?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Mr. Moloney would have been promoted through the Civil Service.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: My point is that Mr. Moloney has experience.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: Is the practice of hiring or employing people in the Civil Service good enough or should it be changed? Is there better practice in the private sector that could be introduced to the civil and public service?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Secondment Policy in the Civil and Public Service: Engagement with Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (15 Jun 2022)

John McGuinness: The reason I am asking is because we have not had great success in attracting people from outside into the senior ranks of the Civil Service. Is that to do with salaries or is it to do with them going off and getting different jobs while they are waiting, as Mr. Moloney said, for decisions to be made? What can we do to make it more attractive to those outside to come in and bring in some...

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