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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the witnesses for their presentations. I am not sure if they followed the earlier presentation from departmental officials who indicated there would be significant changes to the draft heads which have given rise to concern. The Bill is relatively short and FLAC has raised certain issues that probably should be addressed. The officials have indicated that the exemption for SPVs...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Ms Murphy has proposed that where a loan book is sold to a regulated entity, the owner of the book shall be exempt. It appears that the Department plans to introduce such a provision, which will apply not only to entities which are currently regulated but also future entities because they will all be regulated as service providers under this legislation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am interested in Ms Murphy's views on the officials' comment about regulating the service provider rather than the owner. Mr. Hogan stated: Our intention is to allow access to the Financial Services Ombudsman for borrowers who are unhappy about any actions which affect them. Our intention, subject to the advice of the Office of the Attorney General, is that, if the regulated credit...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, okay. I understand that. Does the servicer face the same legal obligation as the owner? I refer to circumstances in which the servicer is contracting out in terms of engagement with the customer, but the owner still has legal ownership of the loan. Under the existing rules, are penalties imposed by the Financial Services Ombudsman and similar bodies on the servicer or on the owner?...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I have a final question on this matter. We are thinking about this Bill in the context of the sale of loans from regulated entities to unregulated entities. The actual shape of the Bill has changed quite significantly. I want to tease that last point out by using the example of a case in which AIB serviced its loan book out to Certus. I am speaking hypothetically. As things stand, if I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am not just-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. If AIB has outsourced my loan book to Certus - banks have entered into such contracts and are continuing to do so - Certus will be writing to me to tell me I have fallen into arrears, etc. If I believed it was not behaving appropriately and decided to go to the Financial Services Ombudsman on that basis, against which institution would the case be taken? At this time, it would be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: -----despite the fact that it has hired a company to engage with me. Is it not the case that under the proposed legislation, my claim would be against Certus in the first instance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. Mac Donncha confirm that in the case of a regulated entity, such as AIB, Bank of Ireland or Permanent TSB, the servicer does not come into it and this section does not apply?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I am keen to ensure that if this happens in the future, AIB, Bank of Ireland or any of the regulated entities will not be able to say "this is nothing to do with us; it is to do with Certus".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: It does not change that relationship whatsoever.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: If we are going to see publication by the end of the year, it will be next year before we are actually dealing with this legislation and it is passed into law.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: People out there have genuine concerns about this because the Government missed this issue and we are now trying to deal with it retrospectively. To simplify the issue, if I had a loan that was with a regulated financial institution that was sold on to a third party, after this legislation is passed, regardless of what that third party is doing at this point in time, that loan will be just...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Would there be any case in the context of the scenario I have outlined, where a loan was sold by a regulated entity to an unregulated one, that post the enactment of this Bill, the borrower would be at a disadvantage?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: I understand that is the intention but just to be clear, there is no situation envisaged where such people would be at a disadvantage once this Bill is passed. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Has the Department identified, in its attempts at drafting the legislation to meet the intended outcome, any cases where people would be disadvantaged because the legislation did not apply at the time of the sale of the loan book?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Even for those people in the middle, in limbo, the same type of laws and rules will apply. Is that correct?

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