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Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions: Local Authorities (1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: 10. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government his plans to review the baseline of self-funding property tax for local authorities like Dublin City and Fingal, in order that they can hold onto 100% of local property tax collected without losing other funds of streaming. [59834/22]

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions: Local Authorities (1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: Last week Dublin City Council passed a €1.2 billion budget. It is one of largest budgets it has ever passed. Over recent years the Government has supported many local authorities throughout the country. However, there are challenges with regard to local government funding. We want local authorities to hold onto 100% of the local property tax in their area. When might we review the...

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions: Local Authorities (1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I welcome the commitment to review the baselines. If I heard correctly this will be done in advance of the 2024 budget process. Local government funding is a bit of a dark art. I spent ten years in local government and I still cannot get my head around a lot of it. It is about retaining the local property tax in that locality, because if people pay the tax, they expect those services in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: On the cybersecurity attack initiated on the HSE, Mr. McKeon said there was an attempted attack on the Department at the same time. Did that give rise to a similar level of damage as the attack on the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: As a result of that attack, has the Department increased spending in that in that area?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: With the learnings from the HSE, for example, in the context of data recovery and the vulnerability of the network across multiple sites, has the Department examined these issues?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: It is the far greater threat from Putin than a few politicians not being able to travel to Russia. The far greater level of threat is cybercrime.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I will move back to the issue of classification for PRSI. Based on Mr. McKeon's answer, is he saying it is possible, for employment rights purposes, that a person can be deemed to have a contract of service but for Revenue purposes to have a contract for service? In other words, a person could be self-employed for one set of rights but could be employed for a different set of obligations....

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I appreciate that Mr. McKeon can only speak for the Department. In both cases, one is not actually determining if a person is employed or self-employed, one is actually determining what are the implications of the nature of the employment or non-employment with regard to the functions the Department carries out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: There is some confusion about the word "test". Case law was mentioned. A number of tests - mixed tests, control tests and so on - have been referenced by various members of our Judiciary and the UK's. Those tests are derivatives of the Department's five categories. However, they are different from test cases. In test cases, one scenario is analysed and then automatically applied to an...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: The type of employment they have or the area in which they work is not a limiter. Rather, the circumstances of their individual employment decides their treatment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I apologise for putting the Comptroller and Auditor General on the back foot, but we referenced correspondence a number of weeks ago regarding a sample analysis of classifications. He might elaborate on it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: That was a very small sample.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: There were no cases where categorisations or off-the-shelf determinations were used.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: I will move on to the issue of debt write-offs. I have dealt with many such cases in my constituency office. For one reason or another, people can accrue payments that it turns out they were not entitled to but in which respect there was no element of fraud. For example, a person might have received a set of payments unawares. The Department has the ability to write off debts. Will Mr....

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: There may be debts that are not applied above the €27 million that has been detailed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: It is difficult for Mr. McKeon to comment on individual cases, but what is the profile of the 715 people who had a debt of greater than €10,000? Is it where the Department believes that someone has engaged fraudulently?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: It is more a judgment of the person's ability to repay than the circumstances in which the debt arose.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: There is sometimes an attempt to demonise people in these circumstances by alluding to fraud, but the witnesses have clarified two matters. First, fraud accounts for a small amount of the debt, with most of the debt being due to routine issues or people claiming inadvertently. Second, the Department takes a compassionate approach to repayments, one that reflects people's ability to pay...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection - Social Insurance Fund 2021
Chapter 10: Regularity of social welfare payments
Chapter 11: The recovery of benefit and assistance payments following compensation awards
Chapter 14: Classification of workers for PRSI purposes
(1 Dec 2022)

Paul McAuliffe: My comments were for my colleagues rather than Mr. McKeon.

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