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Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: The Minister signed that statutory instrument last year for the transfer.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: Can Ms Graham give us the value of what was transferred under that statutory instrument on a local authority by local authority basis?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: That is only part of the transfer.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: Were the PPPs transferred as part of that?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: So the Department is telling us that it does not know the value of PPP contracts that are being transferred from local authorities to Irish Water.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: It is written into the PPP contracts at the beginning. There is no projection. There is a figure in the PPP contract.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: It was facilitated by the statutory instrument signed by the Minister.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: Will it take Ms Graham long to get that information on the PPPs?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: That is the PPP end of it. They are the current operational contracts and matters at design stage that Ms Graham said were done. The bigger issue, however, is the approximately €11 billion of fixed assets that have been out there over a period of time, in respect of which there is only €650 million, with a possible liability. We need a breakdown of that €11 billion. In...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: Contract by contract.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: It should be there. Is that transfer process completed?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: It would be good to get information on the Department's relationship with the setting up of Irish Water. How will it tally with what I understand will be the commercial rates bill that the Department will pick up, which would be payable by any commercial semi-state organisation to local authorities in respect of assets in their area? How has the Department estimated what might be payable?...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: How was that worked out?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: Local authorities did not charge the rate.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: So the Department has that list.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: It is an issue for another day, but I put it to Ms Graham that an annual rates bill of €60 million in respect of assets of €11 billion or €12 billion is very low. Any business man in the country would cut off his right arm to get such a low rates bill in respect of assets at that level of value. It would be very interesting to compare. A simple rule of thumb is that if...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: I wish to stick to this broad topic of Irish Water for my first round of questions, but if I have time I will return to the issue of land aggregation. The Department gave a subvention to Irish Water of €439 million in 2014, €399 million this year - 2015 - and €479 million next year. In addition, there are direct payments from the Central Fund. We will add it all up....

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. McCarthy saying that the Commission for Energy Regulation determines the amount of the Local Government Fund subvention by the Department? I thought Mr. McCarthy was the Accounting Officer for that money, not the CER.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: It is not the energy regulator who has decided the level of the subvention; it is the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 25 - Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Chapter 6 - Land Aggregation Scheme
Chapter 7 - Matters Arising from Audit of Vote 25 - Environment, Community and Local Government in Relation to Water Services
(5 Feb 2015)

Seán Fleming: I am applying to the Department’s handing over of a subvention the same procedures that I would apply to the Department of Health.

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