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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: I have a proposal on the sequencing of speakers. There is one non-member of the committee present. I propose that any non-member who was here at the start be given a slot at the end of the first round of questions, members who wish to contribute a second time be permitted to do so thereafter and, if time permits, any other non-member in attendance be permitted to contribute after that. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: I welcome our witnesses. I commend them, their team and all of those involved in the research on their work and thank them for it. I will start by making one point . A lot of the media attention, and I would argue some of the political attention, has been on the legislative changes, which are important. The operational recommendations that Ms O'Shea makes are equally important. We are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: Is there any legal reason?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: There is no medical reason and there is no legal reason.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: What is the reason for it remaining? What is Ms O'Shea's view as to why it was included in the first instance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: From Ms O'Shea's perspective, and from the research that underpins this report, Ms O'Shea is very clear there is no medical reason or legal reason why it should remain.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: I want to get to that. I have very limited time. I appreciate the answers that I have been given. The report goes into this in detail with the UnPAC report, which showed that the respondents wished to access care as expeditiously as possible and did not perceive any benefit of having a three-day period of refection on their decision. The stated that they felt certain of their decision,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: Would the witnesses agree with that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: So from the perspective of the clinicians and women who use the service, the majority view is that the mandatory three-day wait should go.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: Given this, and given that the Mullaly report talked about it being patronising, why leave it there at all? Why would we not go for a full removal? What was the logic behind not going for a full removal?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: I want to get to some other elements of it. When I look at the legislative recommendations, it strikes me that some of them can be done very quickly and removing the three-day wait is an obvious one, and in my view it should be done expeditiously.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: That brings me to the question I was going to ask. Would it be Ms O'Shea's view that a sequential change to the legislation as possible here? Ms O'Shea referred earlier to section 9, 10 and 11. She recommends that "the Department of Health should take a collective leadership approach, involving health care professionals, patient representatives, lawyers and if required, ethicists, to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: Is it Ms O'Shea's view that this process could happen in advance of any legislative change?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: On sections 9 and 10, Ms O 'Shea stated, "The report further recommends that a collective leadership approach should be taken to assist the Department of Health with developing guidelines".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: So, it is partly legislative change but Ms O'Shea is also citing the need to improve guidelines and supports for medical professionals.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: Could those difficulties be resolved through improving guidelines as opposed to-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Report of the Review of the Operation of the Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act 2018: Discussion (31 May 2023)

David Cullinane: I hear that. I just want to make a point because obviously there is political pressure on all of us to act on the report. That is understandable and correct. In my view, the recommendations stand on their own merits. The Government of the day has to make decisions on how to begin to implement the recommendations in the report. The sequencing of it is really important for me. Am I right...

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