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Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The Minister has made it clear he has met the Central Bank on various issues in recent weeks. Has this matter been discussed between the Department as shareholder and the Central Bank as regulator? These issues are in the public arena now. What discussions have taken place with the Central Bank about possible regulatory issues? Obviously the Department’s officials had some issues.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: On that exact issue, I would interpret the situation slightly differently. Ms Nolan said the issues that arose were not regulatory issues, but the memo on the screen says the performance of management in executing these transactions raised the question of the effectiveness of the chief executive officer, CEO. A fundamental part of regulation by the Central Bank is to have confidence in the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: What contact has there been between the Department and the regulator with regard to any issues the Department had with the bank that the regulator was supposed to regulate? We need to contact the regulator, because everybody is talking about the shareholder and Siteserv and the special liquidator. We are so used to not having a good regulator in place that there is a missing piece of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: It would be very remiss of this committee, given that we are talking about a regulated bank and issues relating to it, not to take it up with the regulator in some way. That is all I have to say on Siteserv. If we have a few minutes, I would like to deal with the other business.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I will try and be as concise as possible. These are the notes I prepared last night for my questions before we went down a different road. I have brief questions on a number of specifics concerning the documents the officials gave us. In the finance accounts for 2013, on page 26, the Aer Lingus group was valued at €214 million. What value does the Department have for Aer Lingus today?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I will not get into the merits or demerits----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Fine. If it is valued at €320 million, what is on offer in the public arena? I am not going to get into----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: So what is on offer for the share is just at the current market value.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: That €320 million is the offer price?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Prior to the offer price, what value did the Department have? Was it a bit below that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: That would be useful because the last reference we have is from 14 months ago. My next question concerns the same document in page 45. The officials will know what I am talking about. Under the EU-IMF programme in 2013, €61 million was paid in fees and expenses, I presume for the European Commission, the ECB and the IMF. In 2012, €85 million was paid, making a total of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: No, I am looking for a total for the EU-IMF programme. I am sure there is something for 2011 as well, for 2011-2014.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Are the payments finished? The officials might give the committee the breakdown of the figure. I suspect we are well over the €200 million; I do not know. The officials might give the breakdown of who got the payments between the IMF, the ECB and the Commission. They can send that on. Another schedule the officials can send on is that of the loans we drew down from the three...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: They had a hole in the balance sheet and were given money to fill it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The Department should know, though, as it put the money in on the basis of their projected write-offs and it had to fix a hole-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Pay it back, Ms Nolan means.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I understand the information the officials are to come back to me with. They said that as part of the stress test done by the Central Bank or whoever, there was provision for some write-down of mortgages in some of the banks. What I am asking is, how much of the funding in respect of possible mortgage write-downs that went to the banks as a result of the stress test did the banks actually...

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Ms Nolan knows my question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The stress test must have included some estimate of the different categories of provision they were going to make.

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2013
Chapter 2 - Government Debt and Finance Accounts 2013
(14 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I will put it in my parliamentary question.

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