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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: We cannot pre-empt what the report will come back with or what is linked to operational difficulties. Is it possible that the report will come back saying the operationalisation of the three days is very difficult and it is recommended that it moves to two days or four days? The chair can recommend whatever he or she wants so long as it is linked to the operation of the Act. Then,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: If it is helpful, I will ask the Department to send on a detailed note on this. I would very much have liked to have been able to appoint the chair. The very clear advice I have from the Department is that, given the amount of money involved, there has to be a requisite process. I will undertake to have a note sent to the Department on exactly that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I will ask Ms Luddy to respond to that and, as I said, I will ask the Department to put together a note on it for the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: We can, although it is clearly not a point of order at all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I will ask Ms Luddy to reply to that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: No. There was no equivalent tendering process.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Senator. All I can give is my view on it. I want this chair in place as quickly as possible and the very clear advice I have from the Department is that there is a legal requirement to go through such a process.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: No. I got this advice directly from the Department of Health, which is right and proper. It would not be normal for me to check such advice with the Attorney General.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I know I am repeating myself and I am not trying to be unhelpful. I have absolutely clear advice from the Department of Health that there is a legal requirement for us to go through this process. Were I to do as the Senator suggests, I would be acting in a way I am advised is illegal. The committee at that point would, quite rightly, be asking me very different questions. As I said, I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: With regard to the Senator's previous points, I am happy to state again that the information should have been provided to the committee and it is not acceptable-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It is not acceptable that the committee was provided with the terms of reference at that time. The Department is no more perfect than any organisation or any of us in what we do. The Senator made some quite strong statements and I state for the record that the Department of Health over the past 18 months has been working at a pace that I have never in my life seen people work. I was at my...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Senator. To be clear, I was not talking about myself but rather my officials. It does not mean any of us gets everything right all the time but I just wanted to make that statement. On the Senator's substantive point, I believe there are gaps. I need to be very careful not to pre-empt this work but there are geographical gaps, for example. That is quite clear. We do not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I fully agree. I have got agreement from the Government and the Office of the Attorney General that this legislation would be listed for priority drafting. Drafting is under way and when we have the heads of the Bill, I will bring a memorandum to the Government. The heads of Bill will then go to the Joint Committee on Health for pre-legislative scrutiny. We will take the committee's...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: I will ask Ms Luddy to come in on the timeline for the process.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: It is a matter for the committee how it schedules its work on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: That is the intention, yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: On engaging with women who have travelled abroad, there will be input through various channels. First, the women can input through the public consultation process. Second, service providers who might be providing continuity of care in Ireland may also do so. I have no doubt the civil society groups to which the Senator referred will also have an input. I am not concerned about the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, I, too, would prefer the chair to have been appointed and I am sure that the Deputy will appreciate that I must act on the recent advice that I have received. On the point made about policy versus operation, yes, we must take a very common sense approach. Ultimately, the point is that this review is not meant to re-open the debate about repeal. That debate has been settled and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Review of Scope and Structure of Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Act: Engagement with Minister for Health (8 Dec 2021)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes. I do not think that we want to set conditions on what can and cannot be recommended. Let us see what they come up with and then, as an Oireachtas, we will look at that. Yes, there could be policy implications. The Deputy asked whether there are things we can do in tandem to improve services. Yes, and we do not have to wait. If there are things that we know can be improved now...

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