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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: In regard to this group of amendments, is the Minister saying essentially that the 16,000 mortgages, not many of which were with IBRC, will be left out? Is it the case that they are on their own and that there is no road back?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: They will come in retrospectively.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I understand.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The issue I am concerned about is the owner of the loan who is not to give instructions. I would have thought that the owner of the loan, when about to engage a credit servicing firm, would lay out careful parameters at the beginning and that once the credit servicing firm took over its hands would be tied by these instructions. I accept the Minister's point that during the course of that...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The Minister is answering the question, so we are not wasting time. One question that I raised on Second Stage was about a situation in which one of the big banks - AIB or Bank of Ireland - sells the loan to a company outside Ireland, which in turn appoints a credit servicing firm to do the work for it in Ireland. Essentially, the Minister is saying that the owner, who could be in any other...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Which we are coming to.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I understand all that and I appreciate the Minister's clarification. We are getting down to the net point. I accept that the credit service provider, no matter where it is based, that has the interaction will be covered. That is good. We can put that side of the issue to bed. However, the loan book owner is the real issue. I understand from what the Minister said that the loan book...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I think I am getting it. If the loan book owner is outside the State – in Canada, for example – it is not covered by this. It is covered only if it does the credit servicing itself. However, once it has a domestic-based credit servicing company doing its business, the position is different. This implies that the legislation is about regulating those who interface with the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: The code?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: To be helpful, could the Minister say that again?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Outside this legislation, normal contract law applies.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I believe we are in agreement. In other words, the Minister is saying this legislation is not to deal with the loan book owners because they are not the entities directly involved with the customers to start with. I am just saying it is a pity they could not be captured also. I acknowledge the Minister's statement that contract law will technically apply at the end of the day.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: We will agree, but I believe the legislation would have been better had we captured the loan book owner with some mechanism to cover circumstances in which that owner is not the servicing agent.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: There was a problem because the division bell did not ring when the vote was called. I was outside, the bells were still ringing but the door was closed. It was a technical problem.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I wish to signal that I will table an amendment to the section on Report Stage. I propose that on page 4 at the end of line 18, after the word "restructuring" to add the phrase "where the credit agreement is in financial difficulty". I also want to add the words "where the credit agreement is in financial difficulty" after line 16 on page 5.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 11:In page 5, between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following:“(2) Section 33A of the Central Bank Act 1997 is amended by inserting the following subsection after subsection (5)—“(6) The Bank shall also impose, on a debt management firm and or a credit servicing firm, a condition that a customer shall, within 30 days of his or her credit agreement...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I accept the Minister's point about giving information on the code of conduct on mortgage arrears and that the right to go to the Financial Services Ombudsman is effectively unchanged. However, the core issue of this amendment is the value of the loan sold at a discount. The Minister again drew the comparison with NAMA. The write-downs in respect of the loans transferred from AIB, Bank of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: Richie Boucher would be proud of the Minister. That is all I can say. He was here two weeks ago and gave the exact same line. He said people took out the debt, they knew the value of the mortgage, they should not be looking for him if they want a write-down and are not expecting their neighbours to carry the cost. That is the Richie Boucher line: there will be no write-offs. Bear in mind...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 12:In page 5, between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following:“(2) Section 33A of the Central Bank Act 1997 is amended by inserting the following subsection after subsection (5)—“(6) The Bank shall also impose a condition that debt management firm and/or a credit servicing firm shall be subject to the Code of Conduct on Mortgage Arrears 2013, in...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Consumer Protection (Regulation of Credit Servicing Firms) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 May 2015)

Seán Fleming: I move amendment No. 13:In page 5, between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following:“Provision for newly regulated credit servicing firms 4.The Central Bank Act 1997 is amended by inserting the following section after section 34D:“Provision for newly regulated credit servicing firms 34E. Notwithstanding section 29, a person seeking to provide credit servicing facilities,...

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