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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: I thank the Deputy. She will have to trawl Google.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: I understand Senator Higgins has gone to take part in a vote, so Deputy Tóibín is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Both of the Senators who wish to contribute are voting in the Seanad, so I will ask a question or two. Mr. Barnes referred to Sláintecare and the fact that there is no clarity on how much progress has been made to date on the overall cost of the reforms, but Sláintecare did receive funding. Does Mr. Barnes have a view on that funding and if it was too low? He said that it was not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Let us say that Sláintecare is a process of ten steps. The Government has taken two of those steps to date. Does Mr. Barnes want to know what two steps have been taken and the costs relative to those steps, as well as what is left in the context of the remaining eight steps and their costs? Mr. Barnes is saying that nothing has been forecast and that there is nothing transparent about it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Has IFAC looked at the state of the healthcare system from an economic point of view? We constantly hear that there is a lack of IT systems to report on and monitor up-to-date expenditure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: IFAC's business is budgets, figures, projections and all of that. If IFAC cannot get a handle on the figures in health that would allow the council to be confident about making a projection in respect of the budget, how can the Department do it? Is it a guesstimate? Is it a wild guesstimate? Mr. Barnes is concerned about the impact of the type of spend on the whole budget process. How...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Does IFAC raise this issue with the Government in its reports? If so, does it get any response?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: It is just the budgets that I am interested in. I can never fathom how an increase in a budget can be agreed without knowing the full facts of how the money allocated in the previous year or the year before that was spent. It seems that the only thing the Government is doing is throwing money at what is a big black hole. There is no measurement of real outcomes. It is difficult to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: I have just three questions. The first relates to the members who have contributed and Mr. Barnes referring to various papers in response. I ask him to send us the links to those documents.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: We can then read them at our own leisure and understand them. Turning to the issue of halving our greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 and the impact of that on public finances, the council has stated that this impact has not been fully assessed or factored in. Is the council talking about the agricultural sector, for example? The Irish Farmers Association has proposed a cut of 22% in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: It will be announced in the next few weeks what figures will apply to each sector concerning cuts in emissions. If we take a major part of this context, agriculture, and the suggested 22% cut in emissions there, whole industries are based on this sector. I refer to our beef and milk production. Jobs and exports rely on this and so on. In the past ten years or more, farmers have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: IFAC has not carried out analysis of it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Before Mr. Carroll comes in, Mr. Barnes mentioned other countries. Is Holland an example? It is ahead of us in this regard. Is it an example of how things might go, or might go wrong?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Is there not sufficient information from the experience in Holland to tell us how a reduction of 22% in terms of agriculture can be achieved, to take just one set?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: My final question relates to how much the country owes in debt. What is the view of the witnesses on that? Have we borrowed appropriately and for a length of time that will give us some sort of comfort in dealing with the debt issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: I ask Mr. Barnes to explain that. We owe €240 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: What kind of cash assets are those?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: In monetary terms, what amount of cash does the Government have on hand?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: Is what we are doing this year really an option? Is it better to have it as a once-off than to repeat it next year or the year after?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Summer Economic Statement: Irish Fiscal Advisory Council (13 Jul 2022)

John McGuinness: What is the normal debt ratio? What would IFAC like to see that at?

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