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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have some brief questions on page 9 of the financial statement. The CRA spent a great deal on legal fees. Why was it so much? Given the size of the organisation, €213,000 is a lot.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Page 8 refers to consultancy costs. Consultancy costs include the cost of external advice to management and exclude outsourced business as usual functions. Can you differentiate between paying somebody on a consultancy basis and an outsourced function? What is the difference?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: How many whole-time equivalent posts are outsourced?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. I was worried that it might be a large number. The CRA has consultancy costs of €388,000. The digital platform, which was mentioned earlier, is €218,000. Page 22 refers to consultancy costs of €333,000. The digital platform is a significant element of that cost. According to page 8, the authority capitalised €212,000 of it and only charged...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. I see that the authority brought €298,902 into its capital account. I presume the €212,000 is part of that. I am looking at page 23.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: What else has been capitalised other than the expenditure on the digital platform?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will Ms Martin send us a note on it? There is quite an amount capitalised out of what the organisation is spending. I realise that if the organisation is building up the system it will want to do that, and some of it is then charged to revenue. I will be happy if she sends a note on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We have concluded our work and a division has been called in the Chamber. I thank the witnesses from the CRA and the Department of Rural and Community Development for their attendance and for the information provided as well as for the information they will forward to the secretariat in writing in due course in respect of information sought at the meeting. We will suspend the meeting...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Financial Statements of the Charities Regulatory Authority (21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will go into private session.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We resume our discussion of the Comptroller and Auditor General's Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2018, chapter 9, which deals with greenhouse gas-related financial transactions and matters relating to carbon tax. We have already had a meeting with the Central Statistics Office and the Economic and Social Research Institute on this topic. They have carried out some related...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McCarthy. I now invite Mr. Brian Carroll to make his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Carroll for his opening statement. I call Deputy Cullinane who was the first to indicate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: This is the reason the Department is here. I find it extraordinary. This is the lead Department when it comes to climate change and it does not even know how much money is being collected in carbon tax. That is the reason it is here. After the previous two meetings, we thought we would have had this information. We understand that sectoral committees and other committees will be looking...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will call out the receipts for the benefit of those watching the proceedings. I have the relevant information on my phone. Carbon tax collected on auto diesel was approximately €182 million, on petrol €48 million and aviation gasoline €39 million. I ask Mr. Carroll to deal with the remaining figures as the print on the chart I have is very small.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have a few questions on the receipts from the emissions trading system. Operators have to enter that auction process and the proceeds are distributed among EU member states. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General points out that in the period from 2013 to 2018, we received €367 million. The chart on page 131 of his report indicates that approximately €140 million of it was received in 2018. Mr. Carroll just spoke about the €430 million that was received in carbon tax last year. From the point of view of the Committee of Public Accounts, the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: That comes to €570 million collected in respect of carbon. The Committee of Public Accounts has a simple question. Where did that €570 million go? I do not think Mr. Carroll has the answer to that. That is probably why we are here. As I see it, an extra €90 million is to be raised next year. That will bring it well over €500 million. All that the Department...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: We all got that on budget day. We sat and listened to it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: I come back to my question on the real reason the departmental officials are here. The debate on the budget for 2020 focused on where the small additional amount of the carbon tax we collect next year over this year will be spent. Ring-fencing can mean anything or nothing from a legal point of view. Can Mr. Carroll guarantee today that the amount collected in carbon tax next year will be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion (Resumed)
(21 Nov 2019)

Seán Fleming: As in the previous debate all we want from the Department is to know in simple English where the €3.35 billion collected in carbon tax since 2010 has been spent. Either in 2012 a figure was produced showing it for the previous year or at this stage the Department is going to try to assemble the figures in retrospect to show us. They were either documented at the time or they were...

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