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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I take Deputy Sherlock's point. My contention, at present, is that a fair crack of the whip is given, to use the Deputy's own phrase. In the legislation, even when I provide to the committee a table that explains the differences, we are addressing a separate point. The separate point is a point of principle which Deputy D'Arcy is raising legitimately. I accept Deputy D'Arcy's need to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: We do. I draw the Chairman's attention to the preliminary inquiry stage, specifically section 35(5) and (6). Subsection (5) states, "Following the completion of a preliminary inquiry ... the authorised official shall prepare a report of the inquiry, outlining his or her opinion in relation to the complaint concerned and the reasons for that opinion and shall furnish the report to the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 40:In page 48, to delete lines 20 to 30 and substitute the following:"(a) direct in writing the person, the subject of the investigation concerned, or any person information in whose possession would assist the investigation, to, as appropriate—(i) provide, by means of a statement prepared by the person for the purpose, information, or (ii) produce any document or...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 41:In page 49, to delete lines 14 to 32 and substitute the following:"(7) A person—(a) shall not fail or refuse to—(i) provide, by the means specified in subsection (2)(a), information, or (ii) produce any document or thing in his or her possession or power,to an investigation officer that is legally required under subsection (2)(a)to be provided or...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 42:In page 50, line 12, to delete "finds" and substitute "find".

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 43:In page 50, line 17, to delete "finds" and substitute "find".

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 44:In page 51, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following:"(4) In deciding, under subsection (3), whether to accept a recommendation that it be found that a particular contravention has occurred (or, in a case falling within paragraph (c)(ii)of subsection (3), to accept the recommendation lastly mentioned in subsection (2)(b)) the Commissioner shall have special...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I will comment on section 39 to put on the record what we discussed a moment ago. Given the discussion we have just had, I have a duty to explain to the committee how the investigative procedure moves forward. Section 39 sets out the requirements of the deputy commissioner in preparing a report of the investigation and furnishing that to the commissioner. Subsection (1) provides that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: That could refer to a gift.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: Section 40 provides for the conduct of oral hearings. Subsection (1) provides for what is referred to as an "oral hearing procedure" by the commissioner. If, in relation to a recommendation in the investigation report of the deputy commissioner, the commissioner's decision is not to accept the recommendation of the deputy commissioner and he or she does not refer the matter back to the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: An appeals process is not envisaged in this because of the challenge of deciding to whom the appeal would be.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: It involves oaths and admissions. It lays down clearly - it refers to the High Court.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I will deal with the first question, the relevant rules of the court relating to evidence and proceedings of the High Court will apply, with any required modifications. While it is not judicial, subsection (7) makes clear that the rules of the High Court in respect of evidence will apply.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: We are not envisaging at the moment that the person is a judge but the rules and the way it is laid out make clear that it will be of a very high standard. In answer to the second question on whether it could lead to a criminal investigation, the answer is "Yes".

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: We have to have somebody who will determine whether the law is being infringed. I do not see in what we have outlined here how the rights of the individual in respect of the presumption of innocence are infringed.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: No, it is possible that a criminal investigation could start. I did not say one would start. For example, there is a provision later in the Bill about fines being applied in this area, they are referred to as fixed charge notices, but the possibility of that happening is laid out in the Bill. There is also a more likely mechanism where, for example, the standards commissioner would write...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: It could be. It lays out there "to present his or her case in person or through a legal or other representative,".so it could be legal.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 45:In page 53, line 30, to delete “witness” and substitute “person”.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 46:

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Public Sector Standards Bill 2015: Committee Stage (6 Apr 2017)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 47:In page 54, line 2, to delete “an investigation officer or”.

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