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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: My apologies to the Chairman but this is almost the biggest bill the taxpayer has to pay. The IPHA is a federation for some of the suppliers. It comes in and talks to the HSE. Would the HSE not be better off talking to all the companies on a one-to-one basis because it would strike a better deal? If there are 20 companies, the HSE can separate them and work one off against the other as...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Tell them that. Who is writing the cheque?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: There is one little issue that has been touched on.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I have two final questions on this topic. I notice that the witnesses keep referring to negotiating a "framework". They use that phrase when they are talking about the negotiations. Who negotiates the price? Is it the medicines board? Who actually decides that the price for a given product or tablet is a certain amount?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Who decides on the actual prices of the actual medicines that people get on the shelves of their pharmacies?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Who is the medicines board, or the Health Products Regulatory Authority? Who are they?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Does it have a role in relation to price?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Grand.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I have a final short question. When we were talking about the debt of private health insurance companies, it was suggested that quite a bit of the figure of €290 million could be attributed to the failure of consultants to sign off.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I picked up during the conversation that this meant the consultants who have not signed off have not received their own fees.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Does that not alert the HSE to a problem? That they will not sign the forms to get their fees - one would think this means they have income due to them - suggests to me that they think they should not be signing those forms. How can the HSE include what it is due from the hospitals as income if consultants are willing to forego the fees that the HSE believes are due to them as part of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: That is extra.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: There could be tax reasons.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: They are just delaying it.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Okay. I have a final question. Have any of those people retired?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Have any of those people retired? Are they all still in the HSE's employment? That is what I am getting at. Have any of those people retired?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Is it the case that those individuals have not signed off?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: How in God's-----

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Can the officials do that? I would be very curious to know. The HSE's chances of collecting money from people who have since retired-----

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