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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: Are there two lists then?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is it from a different budget?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is not the full list.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: Are there many such people, over and above the 7,500 on the list?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: I accept that they are recent. I saw a figure somewhere, maybe in correspondence, that it would take an additional 2 million hours, on top of the 18 million hours, to deal with all the applications for home care that the HSE has. I might have done the rough figures, on the basis of 18 million hours divided by the amount of people on the lists, working out what each person is getting on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: I did that sum myself.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: Would that be the average figure? I worked out that figure probably in the same way as the HSE has done. It might be the accountant in me. I will not go into the politics, but the point is that the recent budget provided 1 million extra home help hours. It appears this will deal with only half of those who are currently approved and are on the waiting list. Perhaps Mr. Reid could send the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: I also want to touch on the contract for ambulance services, which I believe Mr. Reid is alerted to. It is specifically on the list. The HSE sent me a letter arising from a parliamentary question I tabled on 12 November. It stated that the HSE had paid out €27 million on private ambulance services that it believes are in the framework. I understand that the framework signed in 2013...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: My reading of this, which is subject to correction, is that the framework expired last year. It appears that €5 million or €6 million per annum may not be in the framework due to the passage of time. The letter also states that payments would be made to service providers who are not party to the framework agreement. This cost is running at an average of €2.5 million...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: We flagged this issue and I would appreciate a quick response.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: Just last week.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: My letter is dated 12 November and a new tender was issued on 21 November. One week after all this happened, a new tender is issued.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is good if it is open to tender. All I wanted was to have it open, rather than rolling over contracts and using people who are not in the framework. That is fine. While it is not yet history, does Mr. Reid accept that the current arrangements are outside the framework that expired in 2018?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: No, that would be pointless. By my reckoning, the old one expired some 18 months ago.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is no disagreement. My facts are accurate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: Perhaps Mr Reid could confirm this to the committee in writing. I am very pleased to hear that the contract is going to tender and the position will be corrected. When the committee discusses this matter again - whoever its members are next year - everything will be under a new framework some time next year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 15 - Development of Primary Care Centres
(5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am very happy to hear this. I ask Mr. Reid to give us a note on this. I must be excused and I ask Deputy Catherine Murphy to complete the remaining business in the Chair.

Written Answers — Department of Defence: Departmental Staff Data (5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: 45. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the number of persons employed on an agency basis in his Department and in each agency under his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50801/19]

Written Answers — Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade: Departmental Staff Data (5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: 53. To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the number of persons employed on an agency basis in his Department and in each agency under his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50805/19]

Written Answers — Department of Finance: Departmental Staff Data (5 Dec 2019)

Seán Fleming: 60. To ask the Minister for Finance the number of persons employed on an agency basis in his Department and in each agency under his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50804/19]

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