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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. O'Brien see any comparison?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: No.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: There is an issue there about any public servant accepting benefits from a company that deals with-----

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Okay. We will move on. I have two small points. I understand there will be a report issued today on the death of baby Mark Molloy in the maternity hospital in Portlaoise in 2012, three years on. Why three years on? Is it being issued today?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Róisín and Mark.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I do not want to be too parochial, but there have been good improvements made to the maternity service of Portlaoise General Hospital under the auspices of the Coombe, which we welcome. Mr. O'Brien is the chair of the task force on the accident and emergency trolley crisis.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Brien is the chairman of that group. How does his work fit when some of his regional managers announce unilaterally, without consultation with local GPs, that they will close accident and emergency units from 8 p.m. to 8 a.m in Portlaoise? That had to be stopped. Why does Mr. O'Brien allow his people to make these statements when essentially they have to be put aside and forgotten...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: My last quick point is a very short one on State Claims Agency payments. It is a big issue. Given that NAMA and the State Claims Agency handle it sometimes, we ask them about it and sometimes we ask Mr. O'Brien about it. In a nutshell, the figures presented to us today for 2014 show that at the end of 2013, the estimated outstanding liability was €1.084 billion. I am taking that...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I agree with Mr. O'Brien completely.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I am an expert on this.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Having asked some general questions, I will ask a few specific questions on the Appropriation Accounts. The introduction on page 2 states that the Health Service Executive (Financial Matters) Act 2014 provided for an amendment to the Valuation Act 2001 to exempt the HSE from the payment of local authority rates on lands and buildings occupied by the HSE. What was the rates bill paid by the...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: The document states that the Act passed in 2014 provided for an amendment to the Valuation Act to exempt the HSE from the payment of local authority rates. Was that always the case?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: There has been no change.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: The document did not read that way but that is okay. Page 39 refers to the recovery of costs of health services provided under regulations of the European Union. The HSE recovered €220 million in 2013 and €172 million in 2014, a reduction in the year of €48 million. I understand this is primarily related to people from the United Kingdom who are resident here and...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I do not get that. Will Mr. Dempsey go through it again? An Irish citizen must pay accident and emergency charges but the man I met does not have to do so. I understood the point he was making to be that he was entitled to free medical care in England because the National Health Service does not charge at the point of entry. Having moved to Ireland, he was entitled to the same level of...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. O'Brien; that helps my understanding. How does that happen? When a person arrives in an accident and emergency unit, does the HSE send out a bill, only for that person to tell it to send it on to the NHS? How is this covered? Do such people have a card?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2014
2014 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39: Health Service Executive
Chapter 19: Compliance with Prompt Payment Legislation in the Health Sector
Chapter 20: Management of Private Patient Income in the Health Sector
Chapter 21: Control over the Supply of High-Tech Drugs and Medicines
(22 Oct 2015)

Seán Fleming: Such people actually get the medical card?

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