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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I have often mentioned that I sat at local level for a long time - 17 years - when I heard the constant refrain that PPPs were excellent and that public contracts were bad. There was no evidence whatsoever for that refrain and it is very worrying that that was the way we went. I heard in Galway only last week about a project I will not mention. It was in the music sector and said PPPs were...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is that the longest?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Those two are what I would refer to as the bad ones. I am not saying they are bad, but they tie us in to high traffic.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: That is against all advice on climate change, and so on. I am sorry, I interrupted Mr. Kennedy, but those two are 45 years and -----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Let us return to schools. According to this document prepared by the Parliamentary Budget Office, it quotes from a report saying:The increasing level of unitary payments which arise on PPP projects [...] is an issue of concern for the Education budget, given the large unitary charge in the budget for 25 schools built using the PPP model capital. In 2016, for example, of the total Education...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: It was 12% the previous year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: How many colleges does that apply to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Is it correct that most of the Department's PPPs are for secondary schools?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: What is the direct comparison between a direct build and a PPP of a secondary school.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: No, I am asking that now, given the fact that 12% of the education budget in 2016 went on PPPs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I will return to that in a moment. If one were to build a secondary school in Galway city, for example -----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: -----what is the difference between a direct build and one by PPP?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: We need schools and we need a secondary school. What leads to the decision to build using a PPP? I understand there are factors such as Government policy, lack of money and a difficult economy, but in terms of value for money, which is cheaper?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: What does a secondary school cost to build, roughly? Can Mr. Ó Foghlú give me a range?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: €20.5 million for a school for 1,000 pupils. Is that the cost using PPP?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: What would a PPP cost for that over 25 years?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I understand where Mr. Ó Foghlú is coming from and that there is a policy here. I understand that the EU has put us in a situation with fiscal rules that things have to be shown off balance sheet and all sorts of magical accountancy rules that do not seem to be applied to direct public housing. However, if one is using a PPP, what is the cost of the school? What is paid to the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: So they are put into a bundle to facilitate the PPP?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I suppose it was never an issue for banks. Money was never an issue when it came to Government policy, but it is an issue for the direct build of schools or the other things that are necessary for a civilised society. Returning to roads, I refer to the N17 to N18, Gort to Tuam, which I mention because it brings up issues at many levels. It was very much welcomed in Galway as having come...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 4 - Overview of Public Private Partnerships
(22 Mar 2018)

Catherine Connolly: The five years for procurement took considerably longer.

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