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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----given the fact that the NTMA, in 2011, were saying, "We could save €8 billion on unguaranteed bondholders alone"-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: I'm on 2008. Given that they were saying the unguaranteed bondholders, "We could save €8 billion", how can you justify-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----an estimate as low as €2 billion to €8 billion-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Well, could one not argue that the €64 billion that was put into the banks through the recapitalisation programme caused the ultimate chaos in the domestic economy, in terms of mass unemployment------

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Moving on from that question because-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: But I would appreciate, maybe, if you had papers that came up with those calculations, if they could be submitted to the inquiry if there's calculations that you have. But can I ask you, in terms of the ... again the NTMA, but it's the principle of it ... how could the NTMA be arguing for the burning of senior bondholders, given what we were told along, that senior bondholders would be...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: It's not the proposal, it's the principle, and what I want you to confirm or reject is that burning of senior bondholders automatically did not mean that you had to burn depositors in financial institutions.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that. Can I ask you, in relation to-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, that's... that's fair. Can I ask you, in relation to solvency ratios, as distinct from minimum capital ratios for the banks-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: So, if a bank ... and we can deal with a bank in 2008, at the time of the guarantee, or any other period-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----but it's more the theory. If a bank falls below its solvency ratio, which, I understand, is 8% of capital, what happens? Is it a case that bondholders would have a call, basically that they would look for their ... there would be a default triggered in terms of the market?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: But I'm asking ... bonds?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: The reason I ask you this here-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: I have ... and I'm not sure if you're aware of it because it comes from Kevin Cardiff's documents, but it's a letter from Ann Nolan to the Minister, it's in 13 May '09. And it's what you mention yourself in your opening statement, that Anglo were in breach of their ratios at a point in time in 2009, and this was requesting the Minister to give them a derogation in relation to this, but it...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: ----- specific to Anglo, but if a bank goes below 8%, is there bonds that the bank would have issued that they would ... they have a call on them, basically, because they're now below the solvency?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: A bank that falls below 8%-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, this is the last thing. A bank that falls below 8%, the solvency ratio-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (25 Jun 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----so let's take Anglo, that had no access to the markets at that point in time.

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