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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Deal with them now, because I have mentioned them.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I propose that we write directly to IDA Ireland, saying that we are very concerned about those two notes, regarding the rental agreement and the €1.375 million spend on a judicial review in relation to the decision of the agency to acquire land by compulsory purchase order, which was never followed through on. We should write directly to IDA Ireland seeking a detailed explanation in...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will ask Mr. McCarthy to comment.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I think that concludes this week's review of reports, statements and accounts received. The next item is the work programme, which we all know. Today is the OPW, tomorrow is the HSE, next Thursday is that National Treasury Management Agency and by next week we will have to finalise our work programme for September and October so the committee secretariat can arrange to have witnesses...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General has been joined by Ms Mahin Fitzpatrick. I welcome Ms Clare McGrath, chairperson of the Office of Public Works. She is accompanied by Mr. Tony Smyth, director of engineering services, and Mr. Mark Adamson, assistant chief engineer. From the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform we are joined by Mr. Dermot Quigley, principal officer. We are also...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McCarthy. I now call on Ms Clare McGrath to make her opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I thank Ms McGrath. Deputy Catherine Connolly is the lead speaker today and will have 20 minutes. The second speaker will be Deputy Peter Burke who will have 15 minutes. Every member called thereafter will have ten minutes. Before I call Deputy Catherine Connolly, I wish to refer to one aspect of the report by the Comptroller and Auditor General. It is dealt with on page 55 and...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is that €9.1 million figure for the period up to the end of first quarter of 2016?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: That is quite current. What was the original budget for the pilots?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: This is a shocking start to the work of this new Committee of Public Accounts. At our first public meeting we learn that the pilot projects were estimated to cost €3.5 million but that the actual cost to the end of June 2016 was €9.1 million. That is 200% over budget. What was so wrong with the original indicative costs? Will Ms McGrath explain how the OPW got it so wrong?...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Does Ms McGrath accept that we must interrogate the fact that the original figure was €3.5 million but that the exercise ended up costing €9.1 million? The committee thought that public bodies were beginning to get the estimates of costs more under control. I am shocked at the extent of the overrun on the original estimate. We have not heard of a figure being 200% over an...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is it possible to indicate the projects that did not proceed as a result of having to find an additional sum of almost €6 million to cover the under-estimated cost of the pilot project? Perhaps Ms McGrath might send a note to the committee on that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Fine. Will the Accounting Officer send us a detailed, up-to-date costing of each of the projects with the current position?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: We are just about on time. We will have an opportunity to come back to Deputy Cullinane. We have gone a good bit over.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Thank you, and finally, very briefly, I want to raise two issues. One, in respect of the maps the OPW submits to local authorities, many local authorities include those maps in their development plans. Should they? You said a minute ago that they are indicative. Should they be part of their development plans because a development plan is the Bible. It is a bit late in the day to tell a...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: A planner’s discretion is very constrained if there is a map from the OPW saying there is a flood risk here of one in 500 years. The second point is that when people try to buy property in those areas, or in a town that never flooded, the bank’s solicitor checks it out and discovers it is a flood area and the bank will not advance the loan. I have encountered people who...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: When you send these maps to local authorities, is there a circular you send with them to explain how they should use them? Surely they do not just arrive in an envelope. What instructions or covering letter do you send with the maps for the local authorities to deal with? I will ask you to send it to the committee so that we can see whether what it says to them tallies with what they say...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Whatever communication you have with local authorities for dealing with this-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Can you send a copy to the committee so that we will know what the local authorities have received from you about the usage of these maps?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 92 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Strategic Planning for Flood Risk Management (14 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: You say you will send 13,000 maps to the European Commission. I am afraid that when they land there, they will be stamped. What legal significance will they have? Will we be told you cannot touch these maps, they are EU approved? There are local designations, national designations and EU designations. Will they end up with an EU designation because they end up in the Commission? Explain...

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