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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: We are now in public session. Apologies have been received from Deputy Marc MacSharry. I welcome members to the first meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts of the Thirty-second Dáil. I am pleased to have been selected as Chairman. I am committed to working with members to fulfil our remit. We will hold approximately 300 publicly funded organisations to account on how public...

Public Accounts Committee: Election of Vice Chairman (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: The first item on the agenda is the election of Vice Chairman. I ask for nominations for that position.

Public Accounts Committee: Election of Vice Chairman (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Are there any other nominees?

Public Accounts Committee: Election of Vice Chairman (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Are there any further nominations? As more than one nomination has been received I am required to deal with them in the order in which they were received and I will now put the following question: "That Deputy Alan Kelly be elected Vice Chairman of the committee."

Public Accounts Committee: Election of Vice Chairman (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I welcome Deputy Alan Kelly as Vice Chairman. Before moving on to deal with correspondence received and many of the issues arising which members wish to discuss, I welcome the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who will join us for the rest of the meeting. He is accompanied by Mr. his parliamentary liaison officer, Mr. Billy Carrie.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, all witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with...

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: The Deputy's points are noted. We will revert to a general discussion on the work of the committee, but I now ask Mr. McCarthy to give a general overview and explain to members his role, particularly vis-à-visthe committee.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: This is a learning experience and as meetings progress we will see how things work. Does anybody have a question? If so, I shall take them in order.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Normally, the legislation setting up a particular semi-State body specifies the auditor and if it is not the Comptroller and Auditor General then we cannot go near them. We try to work in co-operation with the Local Government Audit Service, where there is an area of responsibility that overlaps. For example, we are working on a review of the arrangements for motor tax collection, some of...

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: On that exact point, if a liability from local authorities falls back on the State balance sheet, as its debts are part of the national debt and Comptroller and Auditor General audits the National Treasury Management Agency which manages the national debt - the Comptroller and Auditor General sees where I am going with this question - is such a debt auditable at this committee? There might...

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General had better explain the difference between the national debt and the general government debt.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General might send us a note, in plain English, on the difference between the general government debt and the national debt.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: A list was circulated last night.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: We can easily handle this matter. We dealt with the land aggregation report previously. If there is none available in advance of the Secretary General appearing before us, we will have a detailed report and update sent to us and we will let the Secretary General know that it will be a specific issue for discussion. Someone is smiling at me, so I will say no more.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Who audits the Comptroller and Auditor General's office?

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: The organisations audited by the Mr. McCarthy are large and many conduct a number of internal audit reports during the year. What is his relationship with them in this regard? Does he examine these reports? Does he consider them to be part of his work in coming to an overall conclusion?

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McCarthy for his presentation and for his replies to our questions. If any member or group of members wish to have a further discussion with his office, they should contact the secretariat and that can be arranged. The committee continues from Dáil to Dáil and, therefore, there is a carryover of work from the previous Dáil. It does not have to re-established....

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: On foot of the Deputy's comments, I will write directly to the Secretary General requesting that reports are furnished to us as soon as they are ready because they may not necessarily come to us unless we follow it up. In terms of all of the reports, there is quite a bit in them and I have not had a detailed chance to review them. I propose that we hold them over until next week's meeting...

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes, an observation.

Public Accounts Committee: Work Programme (7 Jul 2016)

Seán Fleming: A reply has been received and we will note the reply. The next items of correspondence are Nos. 2C, 10C and 16C. They are letters from Ms Anne Marie Caulfield, Private Residential Tenancies Board, enclosing copies of the correspondence between the PRTB and a private individual which was sent to us. It is an issue that we followed up before. The board has completed the circle and told us...

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