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Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I am sticking to the amendment. The amendment-----

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I cannot deal with one tax in isolation and not refer to all of the other taxes. I am sorry, but I have been far too accepting of previous rulings of the Chair. This is about whether-----

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I am simply making the point that this amendment relates to whether there will be an ability to pay element to this charge. We cannot have a discussion about this charge in isolation and not refer to all the other charges that people have been asked to pay by this and the previous Government. It is impossible. We must set the context for the introduction of this charge. The context is, as...

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I do not accept that.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I will finish with this point for now. We are trying to confine the debate in a very narrow way-----

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I understand that, but-----

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I understand that, but I must say that in this debate, more than in any other Committee Stage debate in which I have participated, there has been an attempt by the Chair to confine debate, which is unhelpful. I do not believe it is possible to have a discussion on one charge in isolation from other charges or other issues. That does not make sense and has hampered our ability to have a...

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: On a point of order, I was twice ruled out of order when I made general points about water charges. I bowed to the rulings of the two previous occupants of the Chair and I waited until the section was discussed. I hope I am not prevented from contributing when others raise similar points, as that would be unfair.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: That is the problem. The rotation of chairpersons means rulings are being lost.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: Are we still finishing at 9 p.m? Are we taking 15 minutes from this discussion?

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: In the debate on section 16 I attempted to raise issues relating to the water charges plan and was asked to wait until I could raise the issues in the context of these amendments. I sought clarification from the Minister of State on the amount of money that would potentially be raised through water charges and, while he outlined figures that were helpful to us, I am still unclear as to how...

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: It is the same thing. Once I am in full flight, am I better off in continuing to speak? I can rehearse my arguments on the section.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: There is consensus on the issue in terms of the outcome. There is no doubt that what we all want to see is full transparency.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I have a problem with the Minister of State's response on the issue of the annual report. It is my experience that annual reports can be very general and do not specifically provide a breakdown on a county by county basis, as sought in the amendment. We will receive an annual report from Uisce Éireann, but that does not necessarily mean what is being sought in the amendment will be...

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I support the amendment. It requires Irish Water to give a full breakdown annually on a county by county basis of all moneys that are transferred and expended by Irish Water. If Deputies were to table a parliamentary question, they probably would get that response anyway. If that is the case, then why can we not just accept this and do it as a matter of proper transparency? If we are...

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I wonder will the annual report provide a county-by-county breakdown.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I do not wish to comment on whatever might happen in China, but it seems that we have a split-----

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: It seems from the contributions of Senators Paul Bradford and Fidelma Healy Eames that we have a split in the RA - Reform Alliance - on the issue; one is in favour of water charges, while the other is not.

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: We have learned that at least. The Minister of State gave a figure of €1.2 billion. He has said €200 million comes from commercial rates, which is fair enough; the remainder is €1 billion, as if there is a shortfall, and the money does not come from anywhere. However, it does come from somewhere. It comes from what people pay in taxation, which was always the case;...

Seanad: Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (10 Dec 2013)

David Cullinane: I think it does.

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