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Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: The last time we had a debate on this issue, it was in respect of the heads of Bill. Some of the same officials are involved again today. We had very lengthy discussions on the lack of progress in this area. Two years have passed. The question is, what progress has been made since? There was a lengthy discussion at that time on the different types of records involved. I refer to summary...

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: Have we moved beyond summary care records to shared care records for everybody?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: I want to tease out a few issues, and other members will want to come in as well. Obviously, that is good if we want to get to that space, but we are still a couple of years away from getting to the shared care record space. What is the key difference between that and a full electronic health record?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: We are told that the children's hospital will have full electronic health records.

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: What is the difference between what will go live in the children's hospital and the summary care records that will be used across the remainder of the health service? Will that involve integration with GPs and community care facilities or will it just be an EQ system?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: I have a final question. In the North, two of the health trusts - the western and southern trusts - went live with electronic health systems in May. Has Mr. Tierney engaged with colleagues in the North? Has he had a look at their systems? I think it is the Epic system that is in use there.

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: The reason I asked the question is that when we look at other European countries and indeed the North - we just talked about that - they have single system of electronic records with full bells and whistles. That is a single system, but we are not talking about that. If our objective is to move to full electronic health records, would that require a single system?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: I appreciate that and the scale of it. I fully understand that. Mr. Tierney and I have talked previously in private discussions about the cost of all of this. I know the system in the North cost over €1 billion and other European countries have spent a lot of money. What is the budget over the coming years even to get us to a point of having a shared care record? What would be...

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: Am I right in saying it is very expensive and would require very significant capital expenditure?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: Is that for the shared care record?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: However, current procurement is not for a single system, is it? It is for the-----

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: I have one final question and then perhaps Mr. Tierney can come back on both. Was there any resistance from any of the voluntary hospitals? That was something that came up previously. Obviously, they have their own boards and have their own systems. Are we getting buy-in from across the entire health service?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: The question is: are they doing it?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: We had lengthy discussions on this subject in the past and I came away from them with a somewhat more clear understanding of it. Is it correct that individual health identifiers were essentially put in place during the Covid-19 pandemic? Was that the starting point or when the process accelerated?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: I am trying to tease out if this is more of a practical thing. It is not that the PPSN will replace the IHI. It is matching it.

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: The IHI is essentially the spine, if you like.

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: Most people will know their PPSN. How does someone find out what their IHI is?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: Rather than beginning to appear, if I wanted to find out mine right now, how would I go about it?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: If somebody wanted to avoid confusion and wanted to know what his or her IHI is, is Mr. O'Connor saying there is no way of finding out?

Select Committee on Health: Health Information Bill 2024: Committee Stage (16 Jul 2025)

David Cullinane: I am talking about now.

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