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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Were you aware of any lobbying to Brian Lenihan from outside of the Department or the Central Bank, any suggestions about the need to provide a guarantee from any individual? Did he ever discuss these matters with you?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. You talk in your statement about the role of advisers in analysing the crisis and you talk about how they were hampered in their analysis of the crisis by "were hampered in their analysis of the crisis by their unswerving belief that our banks were fundamentally sound and their failure to consider the possibility that their (sic) [may] be a crash rather than a soft landing in the Irish...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Were you involved in any briefings so that you would understand what a soft landing meant as you wrote speeches for the Minister to try and persuade the public that that is where we were headed?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Did you write the speech for him on the ... when he addressed the Dáil on 18 November, the day Governor Honohan went on RTE?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. And Minister Lenihan at the time said, as he was confirming the negotiations were beginning - or the discussions were beginning - with the IMF, he said, "The problems we are facing do not relate to our budgetary position ... It is important to understand that the problems we are addressing are of a structural character in the banking system.", i.e., the reason we are having these...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: That day ... that same day in the Dáil, Brian Lenihan confirmed that he would be heading the negotiations or heading the discussions without actually him being there, it would be officials dealing with it on a technical nature, but he would sign off on them. And we know the discussions and negotiations went on for a number of days. The previous day, Minister Batt O'Keeffe said this was...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Ms Herbert, and finally, can I ask you ... and Deputy McGrath talked on this here in relation to the black hole in the banks and the loss of public confidence in relation to the Government announcing announcement after announcement that additional money had to be pumped into the bank, and the loss of international confidence as a result of that. Was it not the troika that insisted that the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Can I just ask you finally, you mention that it wasn't because you didn't get the sums right. But Minister ... or Governor Honohan in his own report says that Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide were heading towards insolvency at the time of the guarantee. The Government's sums were saying that they didn't require any money. How can you say that they ... that you didn't get the sums right?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Go raibh maith agat agus fáilte arís. Can I ask you, that last statement that you made that you don't believe that the two banks were solvent. We've had numerous witnesses come before the committee and tell us that they believe that they were solvent, they've had reassurances from the Financial Regulator, the former Taoiseach says the Financial Regulator tested this here. What,...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: I've had this ... we've had this discussed at the committee, I think. I've questioned individuals on this because there's a lot of fixation, in my view, around the word "solvency." And you've described solvency from an accountancy point of view, that if you can't pay your dues as they fall due, then you're technically insolvent. Others would argue that that was a bank that was illiquid and...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: When you say no information, like ... at that stage we're well into the crisis, there is meetings taking place on a regular basis. Could it be the case that they were holding the information from the NTMA, or do you believe-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: And in relation to INBS? Is it the same views, in relation to INBS?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: On 25 September there was a meeting held including the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, senior advisers, including the NTMA. You weren't there yourself, Mr. McDonagh, but two representatives including the CEO was there from the NTMA and they discussed the liquidity issues of Anglo and INBS. Did the NTMA, did Mr. Somers or Mr. Corrigan talk to you in relation to the outcome of the...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: I'd say that ... we can discuss the Merrill Lynch option now in a minute, but in the lead-up to the decision on the blanket guarantee, what alternatives ... was there any alternatives other than the Merrill Lynch options were considered? And how were those options evaluated against one another? What advice was the NTMA given on each of the options?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. And they were the only options that were being discussed at that time? The options are encapsulated in the Merrill Lynch-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. And if we can see, Merrill Lynch Summary Options, this is on page 33 of your core books. So there's five options outlined there. Which one was the NTMA arguing strongly for or was it a hybrid?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Merrill Lynch went on to give a presentation and it's I think on page 41 of the core booklets ... it starts on page 41 gave a presentation a couple of days later. And on page 44 it talks about the equity and debt investors and this would be in the context of what they called "State protective custody", or nationalisation. And it says, "At Anglo the majority of equity and debt investors are...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. And on the presentation that Merrill Lynch gave yourselves, did they mention the fact that ... did they mention Seán Quinn? His name doesn't appear in that but he's the only name that appears on the presentation that was given a couple of days later.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. In your ... was there any, in your discussions ... I know you weren't there on the night of the guarantee. So you weren't in the room on the night of the guarantee but in relation to wiping out the shareholders and the potential spillover effects that they may or may not have on other areas, was that ever considered or discussed to your knowledge in the meetings that you were at?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (9 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: In your previous evidence, you told us that you've spent about four hours in Government Buildings on the night, 29 September, the night of the guarantee, during which time you spoke to Mr. Beausang. Can you describe any conversations you had with him and other parties, identifying the parties and the topics discussed?

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