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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will come to the undertaking in a moment.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Okay. Let us move on to the undertaking then. Talk to me about the undertaking.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is this in our documentation?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: What is the witness reading from?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Will he share this with the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Essentially, the witness is saying that the letter of undertaking from Cerberus was drafted by NAMA.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Sorry. I thought NAMA prepared the draft.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Tughans?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Did Tughans supply that? Mr. Daly is talking about the requirement that Brown Rudnick would ask Tughans to supply this letter. There is no reference in anything Mr. Daly said as to whether or not Tughans gave it.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: I am just saying, as a lay person, normally when people give an undertaking, it would cover their servants and agents, not just Cerberus and their own tight organisation.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will move on. Mr. Daly understands he has disclosed information that the committee has not seen before and we will ask him to forward a copy to the secretariat, so it can be e-mailed to us later this evening. What Mr. Daly has read is very important but I had not seen it before. To complete the circle on this particular issue, will Mr. Daly tell the committee when he was informed by...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: When were these letters?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Daly saying it is only when he sought an undertaking from Cerberus that at that stage it emerged that Brown Rudnick and Tughans were working for Cerberus and that he did not know about it up until then?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: I sigh when I hear that. Under NAMA's method of people bidding and working for it, would it not have been a condition - we have seen it before - that anyone making a bid would inform NAMA of which agents were working for them? Would that not be standard procedure?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Now I am being told that Cerberus was in breach of the proper procedures and by not informing NAMA that they had hired-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Explain this to me.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will just talk this through. I am sorry but I think this is important. When Brown Rudnick and Tughans moved to Cerberus, was Cerberus able to get some advantage from the information that Brown Rudnick had as a result of its access to the data room while working for PIMCO?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: All along the line, you told me that everybody who had access to these rooms had signed non-disclosure agreements.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: So Tughans or Brown Rudnick could not use the information they got when they were employed by PIMCO and give it to Cerberus because they had signed a non-disclosure agreement. Did they go to you to be released from that non-disclosure agreement and then use the information they had to supply to Cerberus?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. McDonagh understand? Is he saying that anyone who went into that data room, even though they signed a non-disclosure agreement, could use the information they got to go off to someone else? That is what Mr. McDonagh is telling me has happened.

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