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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Summer Economic Statement 2023: Discussion (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: You are being deliberately-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I thank Mr. Conlon for attending and for his opening statement, which gives us a lot of detail. The public spending code which became effective in January 2020 is a step forward, as Mr. Conlon said. As he outlined it was the first time there was a systematic approach to project assurance cost, forecast, risk, procurement and the other areas we needed to tackle. Three months ago, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Will the public spending code be in place until the guidelines are published or have the reforms that have been announced already come into effect?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Under the 2019 spending code, the Department was required to undertake a technical review of any major capital projects at three stages, namely, the strategic assessment report, the preliminary business case and the final business case. Can Mr. Conlon confirm that the Department's technical reviews of both the preliminary and final business cases were replaced in 2021 by a private...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Can Mr. Meaney confirm that the new reforms announced remove the last technical review from the Department of major capital projects at the strategic assessment stage?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Does that mean the Department will no longer be providing any technical reviews of major capital projects?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: According to the opening statement, the formal approval of gate zero and the technical review by the Department on completion of the strategic assessment stage were taking four to five months in total and that the external review process and major project advisory group takes another three to four months. What time saving is anticipated to result from the recent reforms that were announced?...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: There will be a time saving. In January 2022, the then Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, said the timelines associated with public spending code compliance were a fraction of the time required for compliance with the range of statutory requirements. H also noted that many public spending code steps could be undertaken in parallel with other project development phases. What research or...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: There will always be a time saving. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That is a very broad caveat.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Are some Departments better than others?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: In 2021, the Department introduced the external assurance process. What was the rationale for replacing the Department-led assurance process - the technical reviews - with the private consultant-led assurance process?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: What is being done build capacity within Departments, and not only Mr. Conlon's own Department? We should also discuss his Department in terms of not having to contract out everything and just bring in the expertise. What is being done? Does the Department have internship programmes or graduate programmes? What is being done to get the brightest and best into the Department to get value...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: The Department brings graduates directly in from colleges for the IGEES. What I am trying to get at is whether the Department competing with consultants or being completely reliant on consultants for answers and problem-solving. What are we doing inside Departments to break away from that reliance, or to not be so reliant?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Are there graduate programmes within that? I always hear about graduates going to the big four and other consultancy firms. Does the Department have means of getting them directly?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: It is something I am looking in to. How many people are in the service?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: I know. We might talk about that a bit more another time. At the time the external assurance process was announced, the previous Minister said that this reform was to meet a recommendation of the International Monetary Fund's, IMF's, public investment management assessment of Ireland. As Mr. Conlon said, the document has been provided to us in the meeting and there are many good...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: The Minister said specifically that it was to meet a recommendation of the IMF's public investment management assessment of Ireland. I just wondered where in the report it said this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Changes to Public Spending Code: Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform (12 Jul 2023)

Rose Conway-Walsh: That would be great. In 2021, the Department also commissioned the consultancy firm Ernst & Young to do a report on a capital delivery project. Did the Supporting Excellence: Capital Project and Programme Delivery Capability Review that was produced by EY recommend an external consultant-led assurance process?

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