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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: The committee will decide that. We will consider it.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Somebody's phone is still going off in the room and it is upsetting the proper recording of proceedings. Phones should be placed in airplane mode and not just on silent mode.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: What is 227?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is that separate from the 226 review?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: When Mr. Daly refers to a section could he please explain what it is.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: I will move on to Deputy Rock.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: One or two people have asked to come back in a second time. At this stage, we will ask specific questions. When PIMCO spoke with NAMA on the conference call on 10 March to tell it about the success fee arrangement, did NAMA establish whether or not the success fee had already been paid? I am not going to read any of the transcripts.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Can the witnesses confirm that?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: So it was not paid. I just want to put that on the record. When Cerberus ultimately notified NAMA of its success fee arrangement, did NAMA inquire of Cerberus how much it was?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will come to the letter of undertaking in a moment. In other words, the witness is telling me that PIMCO came to NAMA and said that it had a success fee arrangement through Brown Rudnick of £15 million to be split three ways. However, because it pulled out and there was no success from PIMCO's point of view, NAMA confirmed that payment was not made. NAMA was aware that £15...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Let us understand the sequence. I want to take us through the sequence without going through any transcripts. PIMCO came and told the witnesses that it had a success fee arrangement in place. Its legal advisers in the State said that it must disclose it. NAMA had board meetings on it, it was a major issue of concern and the witnesses say that it was of such significance to the board...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Then we move on to Cerberus. Later on in the process, Cerberus informed NAMA about a success fee arrangement involving the same company. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Yes. Brown Rudnick.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Cerberus informed NAMA of a success fee involving Brown Rudnick. Is that correct? Tell me if the sequence is right.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Fine. That is what I am saying.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: I am going to stop right there. Given the existence of a success fee in respect of PIMCO, as far as NAMA was concerned, PIMCO's involvement from thereon in was fatally flawed because NAMA viewed it as such a serious issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Because of Mr. Cushnahan. Okay, we will come to that. Therefore, NAMA had no problem with a success fee once it did not touch one of its own people. Let us move on. Did NAMA inquire of Cerberus how much the success fee was that Cerberus was proposing to pay?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Would it have been of interest to NAMA-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (29 Sep 2016)

Seán Fleming: Okay. Let us move on. The witness is saying-----

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