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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: Their recommendation is to develop an action plan for this report and to sponsor its implementation. The task force is in place.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: Their recommendation is to develop the action plan, which I will remind the task force to carry out.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The Chairman is correct. I will remind them of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The gross annual budget in terms of current and capital expenditure is approximately €7 million for 2021.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: This angle has been raised by a number of Deputies and in the media, namely, the idea that the entire country's cybersecurity is being protected by 29 people and €7 million. That is absolutely not the case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: I would love to be able to tell the Deputy that. What I need for that is the accounting to support that, in other words, that every Department, every State organisation and every public sector body would report back to me as to what its spend is and what its manpower is for cybersecurity. Without that information, I cannot give the Deputy a clear answer as to what the total expenditure is....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The Deputy 's first question was on why Ireland was targeted. The truth is that Ireland was not especially targeted. Hospitals around the world have been randomly attacked. It is just as easy, if one is a criminal sitting at a computer, to attack a hospital in New Zealand as it is to attack one in the United States, where 16 hospitals were taken down, Ireland, France or wherever. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: We regularly meet with the tech giants. I had a meeting with Apple, which is based in the Deputy's constituency, not that long ago. Cybersecurity is discussed, but, in addition to that, we received support from third-party international cybersecurity consultants who provide us with a subscription service. We do not just rely on our own staff in Ireland. We also use third-party companies...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: They have said to me that they need Government involvement as well and that cannot defend themselves purely on a commercial basis. Through our co-operation-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: None of the tech giants has contacted me, either directly or indirectly, to comment on the attack on the HSE attack or to express their concerns about it. We have a co-operative relationship with those companies. I have no sense they are suffering from dissatisfaction with the State in any way. They need us and we need them. There is a relationship there whereby we hire third-party and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The €7 million is split differently from the way the Chair said. It is €5 million for capital spending and €2 million for current.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: I appreciate that the committee is trying to help me. We are all on the same page. We all want fantastic cybersecurity defences for our nation and we want them to be properly resourced. That is absolutely fine. What would help this discussion, however - this has been brought up by a number of Deputies and Senators - would be to have a broader accounting in respect of how much money is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: I am happy to do that work. I am interested. My thoughts over the past few months, when people were saying the money is wrong, were that I needed more information. I will do that work and come back to the committee with it. I will also come back to the committee in the coming weeks with the full report, again redacted. That will take a number of weeks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: On the Deputy's point about whether there should be cybersecurity investment across all of Government and so on, I am looking to have that included as an objective within the national development plan, which is due to come out shortly. The Deputy also asked why it is not going to grow faster and why it is a five-year plan rather than a two-year one. The NCSC has been growing since 2018....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: I completely agree with the Chairman. I will also mention that the NCSC has developed standards in cybersecurity for public bodies. It is due to publish that within weeks. That will address the matter in question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The CCDCOE in Tallinn is not a NATO facility. It is not under the NATO command structure but it is accredited by NATO. It has people in it from Sweden, Finland, Austria and Switzerland. It involves a number of nations co-operating, but it is not run by NATO. We have somebody out there. It is mostly a research facility. Due to the fact that international co-operation is so critical to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The national security analysis centre is a co-ordinating body. The Deputy asked whether it is the place where the buck stops. The statutory responsibility still lies with the Garda, the Defence Forces or the NCSC, which is under the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications, in each case. The national security analysis centre is a co-ordinating body.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: Correct.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: It is under the Taoiseach's Department.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Cyber Security Centre Review: Discussion (22 Sep 2021)

Ossian Smyth: The Sensor platform is actually in full operation across Government. It needs legislation to be developed and that legislation is being drawn up. It is not as if there is no legislation underpinning cybersecurity in Ireland. We have the network and information systems directive, which is being transposed into Irish law, but we are bringing in additional legislation to provide a better...

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