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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----refer to civil servants here, or officials. I'm talking about Government Ministers.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Is that ever going to change? Like, given the fact, you know, we know from this inquiry ... we've found evidence that guarantee legislation was being discussed at a very early stage in the spring of that year, we know that the nationalisation of banks were being discussed, we know that the ... Minister Lenihan himself went to the Attorney General and circumvented Cabinet because he was...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Can I ask, Ms Burton, you refer on your opening statement, on page 17, to the 1974 Kenny report. Could you explain to the committee the reasons why the rainbow coalition did not implement the findings of the Kenny report?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: So it was because you couldn't get agreement but Labour pushed it at the time?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----we got that-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: No, that's fine, that's fine. No, that's clear. Mr. Rabbitte, and finally on this here, you were a member of the DIRT inquiry committee. And one of the findings was the undue close relationship between the State apparatus - in the form of the Department of Finance and the Central Bank - and the Irish financial institutions. We have it from the DIRT report, it's on page 52, but I quote...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Go raibh maith agat agus fáilte an tUasal O'Reilly. Can I ask you, you refer in paragraphs 3 to 5, on page 5 of your statement, to a multi-bank loan agreement for the Dundrum Town Centre involving six banks, with Anglo as the agent for the other five lenders. How did this arrangement come about and, from a developer's viewpoint, what are the particular advantages and downside risks...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: And is it you that went around to the six banks looking for loans or did some executive in Anglo start phoning up the other five banks saying "Will you give Joe O'Reilly some money for this development in Dundrum?" or how-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. So there was ... or there was a ... there'd been a senior executive in Anglo Irish Bank approaching other banks to lend to you. Is that ... did that happen in this regard?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. You talk about ... on page 6 of your statement, I think, that your borrowings on 30 September 2008 was €2 billion. Is that your entire borrowings? Does that include ... or is that just one company? That's the only company you have, is it?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. Would there be other companies that would have had borrowings as well in your name?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. So €2 billion of borrowings at 30 September. Did you enter into borrowings from any of the guaranteed institutions after that point? In the months ... I'm not talking up until last week, I'm talking about ... you know, did you enter into borrowings with the institutions after that point?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Post the guarantee. You've given us the figure for ... on 30 September 2008. So between then and the end of the year, were you still drawing down more borrowings from the financial institutions that were guaranteed?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. You've given ... on your statement, page 6, it says "The total outstanding par debt attributable to my ownership interests was €2bn at 30th of September 2008." So the question I am asking you is: did you enter into additional borrowings from financial institutions that were guaranteed between 30 September 2008-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: -----not today ... and the end of the year, for example?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. And would you have borrowed from any of the financial institutions between that date and the entry into NAMA?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, any of the NAMA banks?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Nexus Phase (23 Jul 2015)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. That's fine, from recollection. That's fine. And just to clarify this here, because there's been a lot of talk about what would be paid back and what won't. So, €2 billion is what your outstanding debts were at that point in time. That wouldn't have been all to NAMA banks would it, or would it?

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