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Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: I do not think I will be that lucky so I might have to apply to be leader of the party next year so I can vacate it. Page 16 of the submission concerns the housing programme. I wish to discuss some of the housing supports that are provided such as HAP and RAS. I do not have the figure relating to HAP because it is all combined into local authority housing. I know there was an additional...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Obviously with HAP, the inspection of a property must take place within nine months. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Is it fair to say we not have a figure for HAP properties that would comply with the legislation in terms of an inspection within the first nine months?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Does anyone have that figure? Do the local authorities have those figures?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: This is the problem I have with it. Based on my experience as a Deputy, the number of properties that are not inspected is significant. Last year, we paid €153 million to landlords, many of whom provide substandard accommodation. Examples include no heating, damp and windows that do not open in clear breach of safety regulations and legislation. Is the Department comfortable...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Should the Department not have done that before we decided to spend an extra €100 million on HAP this year?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: What percentage?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: So it is a small percentage.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: If a property is inspected and fails the inspection, what is the next step in the process?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Are there guidelines around the make-up of households for HAP? I can give an example of a single mother with three children living in a one-bedroom flat who is in receipt of HAP.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: As the Accounting Officer, would Mr. McCarthy be comfortable knowing that public moneys are being given to a private landlord who was providing a one-bedroom apartment to a single mother and three children?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: This is the issue. As I said, it is my first meeting as a member of this committee and I am still trying to find my feet as to the types of questions we can ask. It was my understanding that the Committee of Public Accounts looks at public money, how it is spent, whether we are getting value for money, controls, processes and accountability and does not really deal with policy issues. We...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: In my opinion, 25% is not very ambitious. That means that 75% of properties in receipt of public moneys are not inspected and we have no idea of the standard of those properties.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Mr. McCarthy is talking there about properties that may not be in receipt of State support.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: That is where the 25% figure applies. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: So, in terms of HAP properties, we are trying to reach a position where if such properties have not been inspected within the previous 12 months, they will be inspected within the following nine months. That requirement will apply to every single HAP property. How long will it take to get to that position?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Who will carry out the inspections? Can the Department instruct the local authorities on that? Can it give them data on the properties that have not been inspected and set targets for them or do the local authorities set their own targets? Does it depend on how many inspectors the local authorities have? Some local authorities have very few inspectors.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: I am not familiar with the committee rules so am unsure if I am allowed to ask my next question. I ask the Chairman to stop me if I am out of order.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: Is the Comptroller and Auditor General comfortable with the knowledge that public moneys are potentially being paid to private landlords who may not be adhering to legislation and best practice in terms of safety and so forth?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 34: Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government (8 Mar 2018)

Jonathan O'Brien: I appreciate that we have increased it by €100 million but by how much will it be increased this year? What is the figure for 2018?

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